una_dogger
Well-known member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltren...honessignalsreallyarekillingthebeesstudyshows
Very interesting.... Now what?
Very interesting.... Now what?
Honey Bee population crashes and Cell Signals
- Thread starter una_dogger
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Little Rickie
New member
That would explain a lot of my confusion. 
I'm buying and have a bee hive delived to my back yard garden this weekend. I guess I'll leave my phone inside.
I'm buying and have a bee hive delived to my back yard garden this weekend. I guess I'll leave my phone inside.
Jay H
New member
DougPaul
Well-known member
Interesting. However, I see a flaw and a weakness in the study:
* Flaw: They didn't run a control using an empty hive to eliminate the possibility that their audio recording system was picking up signals directly from the cellphone. (However, their observation of increased bee noises after the cellphone contact ended would suggest that there is still some effect on the bees.)
* Weakness: Cellphones transmit at dynamically variable power levels, so the level of radio frequency (RF) exposure was uncontrolled. GSM phones also have a number of modes which can alter the structure of the RF signal.
GSM transmits in a series of periodic pulses--a "frame" is 4.615 ms (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/GSM) so the pulse rate would be 216 Hz, similar to some of the frequencies recorded in their audio. This is possible evidence of RF leakage into the recording system. (Of course, the bees might also be picking up the pulse rate too...)
We should also note that the article only gives evidence that the bees are affected by the RF signals. It does not give evidence of colony collapse disorder (CCD).
Anyhoo, interesting and suggestive, but IMO not proof.
Doug
* Flaw: They didn't run a control using an empty hive to eliminate the possibility that their audio recording system was picking up signals directly from the cellphone. (However, their observation of increased bee noises after the cellphone contact ended would suggest that there is still some effect on the bees.)
* Weakness: Cellphones transmit at dynamically variable power levels, so the level of radio frequency (RF) exposure was uncontrolled. GSM phones also have a number of modes which can alter the structure of the RF signal.
GSM transmits in a series of periodic pulses--a "frame" is 4.615 ms (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/GSM) so the pulse rate would be 216 Hz, similar to some of the frequencies recorded in their audio. This is possible evidence of RF leakage into the recording system. (Of course, the bees might also be picking up the pulse rate too...)
We should also note that the article only gives evidence that the bees are affected by the RF signals. It does not give evidence of colony collapse disorder (CCD).
Anyhoo, interesting and suggestive, but IMO not proof.
Doug
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from what I have seen/read it CCD is caused by muliple problems/stress added up. Big problem to the migratory beekeepers that rent out their hives for pollination across the country and move them every few weeks.
DougPaul
Well-known member
It is my understanding that CCD is not currently well understood. The above have been suggested as possible factors.
Other possible factors that have been suggested are disease, parasites, pesticides, etc. One side effect of moving them around would be that any transmissible agent could spread very quickly though out the population. (Movement aiding the spread of pathogens is an issue for a wide variety of pathogens and host organisms including humans...)
Doug
una_dogger
Well-known member
There is a linked PDF to the full study, in case anyone missed that.
The citations point to a growing number of studies that have looked the effects of EMR on the acoustical and magnetic senses in honeybees- I think it's very promising work and hope that the mystery of CCD will be quickly and fully understood.
The ramifications of losing our main global pollinators is staggering.
(and I feel a huge sense of irony posting this from an IPhone :-(. )
The citations point to a growing number of studies that have looked the effects of EMR on the acoustical and magnetic senses in honeybees- I think it's very promising work and hope that the mystery of CCD will be quickly and fully understood.
The ramifications of losing our main global pollinators is staggering.
(and I feel a huge sense of irony posting this from an IPhone :-(. )
Little Rickie
New member
That's what my bee keeper friend thinks. I'll ask him about the cell phone thing when I see them.
Maybe I'll do my own flawed, weak, study without running a control. For entertainment purposes only, nothing scientific. That science stuff is too much of a hassle.
I can fudge my results enough so I can write a book, well ghost written, and put a supermodel on the cover so everyone in Hollywood will read it and it becomes a best seller. Then do the talk show circur
I can see it now on my informertials, "Stars For Bees!"
One off the wall theory I have heard is that CCD is natures way of responding to the introduction of an invasive species, as European Honeybees were brought by the Europeans and these bees displaced the native bee's that were quite capable of pollinating prior to the introduction of Honeybees. Many of the wild bees do not live in bees nest's, some are solo and some are occasional nesters.
Unfortunately the wild bee populations can also be affected by sick Honeybee colonies who act as "resevoirs". I do notice that when I look at what insects are polinating the wild blueberry bushes on tops of remote mountains, its usually wild bees including bumblebees. I know of a few folks who actively manage for wild bees to polinate their orchards and gardens.
CCD gets a lot of PR as it impacts commercial honeybees that are used to force high pollination rates in commercial farms. Essentially too many honey bees are introduced into the field so that the bees have to make multiple passes over every flower to ensure a hign pollination rate, this causes the bees to have to expend lots of effort to get minimal honey. They are trucked all over the country to follow the crops which is also very stressful. I expect that if they cute and cuddly, people would object to their cruel treatment.
Unfortunately the wild bee populations can also be affected by sick Honeybee colonies who act as "resevoirs". I do notice that when I look at what insects are polinating the wild blueberry bushes on tops of remote mountains, its usually wild bees including bumblebees. I know of a few folks who actively manage for wild bees to polinate their orchards and gardens.
CCD gets a lot of PR as it impacts commercial honeybees that are used to force high pollination rates in commercial farms. Essentially too many honey bees are introduced into the field so that the bees have to make multiple passes over every flower to ensure a hign pollination rate, this causes the bees to have to expend lots of effort to get minimal honey. They are trucked all over the country to follow the crops which is also very stressful. I expect that if they cute and cuddly, people would object to their cruel treatment.
Little Rickie
New member
I think that is very true, overcrowding and stress brings out the weakness of any living thing and makes it susceptable to disease a healthy creature could resist. A stronger more adaptable bee may evolve from this. Mean time I'll be kind to my bees. This rain is making it tough for them. Mead anyone?
They are cute.
They are cute.
Ridgewalker
Active member
That's why I broke out in hives all of a sudden while hiking
Little Rickie
New member
Did you catch a little bug? There is a lot of that flying around now.
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una_dogger
Well-known member
I think they are cute and cuddly..
...in fact, I even know someone here who pets them.
Peakbagger: I have to agree with you that trucking bees sounds intensely stressful For them.
These seems like a complex problem with multiple potential
Causes and no easy answers -- like most man- made disturbances to the natural balance of things-- I can't help but wonder an worry what we (the human race) are really doing to the planet.
...in fact, I even know someone here who pets them.
Peakbagger: I have to agree with you that trucking bees sounds intensely stressful For them.
These seems like a complex problem with multiple potential
Causes and no easy answers -- like most man- made disturbances to the natural balance of things-- I can't help but wonder an worry what we (the human race) are really doing to the planet.
the multiple problems (I should of just wrote them) I was thinking of were the ones Doug mentioned. There was a documentary within the last year on the Documentary Channel that followed some commercial migratory beekeepers and how CCD was impacting them. Very interesting, I wish I could pass on the title.
"Fruitless Fall: The Collapse of the Honey Bee and the Coming Agricultural Crisis" by Rowan Jacobssen is a good non-technical read on CCD.
http://www.amazon.com/Fruitless-Fal...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305750858&sr=1-2
There's also a study last year which was big news at the time. In it, they found that there was a statistical correlation between CCD and a *combination* of insect iridescent virus and a fungal parasite. What was (and is still not) known was "if (1) these two pathogens cause CCD or (2) whether CCD colonies are more likely to succumb to these two pathogens."
http://thespeedybee.com/news/fungus-virus-may-be-to-blame-for-colony-loss/
http://thespeedybee.com/news/fungus-virus-may-be-to-blame-for-colony-loss/
DougPaul
Well-known member
PBS Nature had a program on the topic of CCD: Silence of the Bees originally shown on Oct 28, 2007.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/silence-of-the-bees/introduction/38/ The entire episode (1h) can be viewed from the link.
And an article on recruiting other bee species for crop polination: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/71605/title/Backup_Bees
Doug
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/silence-of-the-bees/introduction/38/ The entire episode (1h) can be viewed from the link.
And an article on recruiting other bee species for crop polination: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/71605/title/Backup_Bees
Doug
Becca M
Active member
Anybody else here even been/is a beekeeper???? Lots of fun (AND work!!!)
Personally? I *used* to have 1-2 hives alive at any one time, but, I couldn't keep them alive even without a cell phone!!!
Personally? I *used* to have 1-2 hives alive at any one time, but, I couldn't keep them alive even without a cell phone!!!
una_dogger
Well-known member
Yes, the PBS program that aired 4 years ago was excellent. Let's hope the continued attention to this issue
Will keep the research funding coming!
Will keep the research funding coming!
DougPaul
Well-known member
A general comment: we have set ourselves up to be highly dependent upon a single species (a monoculture) to perform a critical function. We also raise this species in crowded conditions with frequent movement in a way that encourages frequent mixing with hives from far away.
Monocultures are at high risk because a single disease/pathogen can wipe out (or nearly wipe out) an entire population (see, for instance, the American Chestnut, the Irish potato famine, etc). Transporting hives around the way we do encourages the rapid spread of such diseases/pathogens between hives.
Genetic diversity, the ability to live in a range of environments, the ability to eat a variety of foods, and multiple populations with a degree of isolation all minimize the risks to a species.
Doug
Monocultures are at high risk because a single disease/pathogen can wipe out (or nearly wipe out) an entire population (see, for instance, the American Chestnut, the Irish potato famine, etc). Transporting hives around the way we do encourages the rapid spread of such diseases/pathogens between hives.
Genetic diversity, the ability to live in a range of environments, the ability to eat a variety of foods, and multiple populations with a degree of isolation all minimize the risks to a species.
Doug
Stan
Well-known member
I think they are cute and cuddly..
...in fact, I even know someone here who pets them.
I agree they're cute but the cuteness to me may stem from how valuable a species they are.
I don't pet them but my wife has no problem cupping one in her hand in order to remove it from our screened-in porch.
Beehives are almost always white. Why? But on one stretch of road near Lincoln, MT, beehives were painted various pastels, each hive a different color and ... I swear ... the buzzing from within was in a calypso rhythym!
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