How do we keep folks from hiking Saturday?

[peakbagger]

Looking at the weather forecast for Friday and Saturday, the weather conditions are forecast is for life threatening conditions. They have happened in the past, but havent had conditions forecast like this for several years and many people have been spoiled by the mild low/no snow conditions in December and the record warm January. Both of these lead to a new crop of hikers may not realize that unless they have special gear and training their life is at risk and more importantly if there is call or need for rescue, it is putting the rescuers at risk. Its highly likely a rescue will be a delayed response and a body carry on Sunday when its forecasted to warm up.

In the past, the OBS and other parties have put out very strongly worded outright warnings on their forecasts, yet blue skies and cluelessness means folks go out anyhow. What other legal proactive measures should of could be put in place?

The trailhead "name and next of kin question" approach has a lot to be said for it

 

[Hillwalker]

Back in the 1950s NH used to have "Woods bans" during high fire risk periods. I wonder how that was accomplished and how effective they were. I remember them when I was living in Gilford and going to high school in Laconia and was still too young to drive. I think that loggers and hunters were the main target and that hiking was not as popular as today.

 

[maineguy]

What other legal proactive measures should of could be put in place?

None, except maybe signs at some trailheads that warn that "your cell phone won't save you if you get into trouble on this trail".

 

[JoshandBaron]

I try to make it a point to sleep in the woods on the coldest night of the year when I have the chance. I have spent nights out in the Whites as low as -27 air temp. I'm hoping to break that record Friday night if I can find a "safe" spot to do it. My biggest worry is my truck starting Saturday.

 

[SpencerVT]

The Higher Summits Forecast hasn't gotten to Friday and Saturday yet. But I wouldn't be surprised if the windchill gets near to 100 below on Mt Washington at some point Friday or Saturday.

 

[Rhody Seth]

I try to make it a point to sleep in the woods on the coldest night of the year when I have the chance. I have spent nights out in the Whites as low as -27 air temp. I'm hoping to break that record Friday night if I can find a "safe" spot to do it. My biggest worry is my truck starting Saturday.

Funny, I was thinking of doing the same thing down here in RI.

 

[NHClimber]

When we get extreme cold weather, I make it a point to stay inside and stoke the wood stove, but I guess I'm just weird...

 

[Salty]

The Higher Summits Forecast hasn't gotten to Friday and Saturday yet. But I wouldn't be surprised if the windchill gets near to 100 below on Mt Washington at some point Friday or Saturday.

Brrrrrr! https://forecast.weather.gov/MapCli...3&textField2=-71.3032&site=all&unit=0&dd=&bw=

 

[skiguy]

Nothing…..There are the people who can handle these conditions if not seek it out. If your headed to the higher mountains on the planet the Northern Presidentials can be some of the best ground to learn the skill set. There should be no banning for what has been a regular use and practice for decades. This thread is just a rerun of the same ‘ole crap that has been discussed here many times before. People are going to be stupid whether someone tries to fix it or not. Leave it alone.

 

[OldEric]

Nothing…..There are the people who can handle these conditions if not seek it out. If your headed to the higher mountains on the planet the Northern Presidentials can be some of the best ground to learn the skill set. There should be no banning for what has been a regular use and practice for decades. This thread is just a rerun of the same ‘ole crap that has been discussed here many times before. People are going to be stupid whether someone tries to fix it or not. Leave it alone.

One of your better posts (IMHO) and one I agree with 100%

 

[Mike P.]

I'm planning on walking Friday night or Saturday in my neighborhood, another wake and funeral will keep me home. (4th since mid-Nov.) We won't really know what the wind speed will be yet for the weekend, it is setting up though to be similar to the weekend Kate M. went out. Old bans may have worked in the 50's when the Kanc was closed in the winter but those days are long gone. You can try coaching them but you can't stop them. Trying to stop the determined usually encourages them more.

 

[DayTrip]

Funny, I was thinking of doing the same thing down here in RI.

I haven't done extreme cold but I like to go out 1-2 times a year for a "horrible weather hike" just to test clothing and gear, see how I handle the whole thing, take notes for the future, etc. I think it is a great idea to get exposure to foul conditions when you are prepared in case some day you find yourself out there in a survival situation and can't just quit and head back to the car. A real emergency is not the time to find out your hard shell leaks or your "go to" stove doesn't work and you have to learn to improvise on the fly. Valuable experience to have just in case. I learn a lot whenever I do it. And it's actually pretty fun every now and then. Makes for some good stories.

 

[peakbagger]

I am not advocating woods bans or supporting the two votes for the Darwin approach. Sure there are plenty of folks either skilled and equipped enough to go out in the forecast conditions and some take it as a challenge or as training for "big mountains" elsewhere on the planet. My concern is for the clueless, the people who think they are all set but have never really tried out their system and training. NH AMC winter school prepped a lot of folks over the years but my guess that school is not even a blip on the social media scene. Given the weather this winter, the urban myth of the frog in boiling water tends to apply, folks may have gotten away with a lot for the last two months but add in very low temps and high winds and they may be way over their level of equipment and competence. Gear that is perfectly warm in 20 F is just not going to cut it at -20. Frostbite prevention become frostbite management. Moisture issues with fogging of glasses becomes a major issue, over the years I have encountered many folks who are dependent on glasses who are effectively blind as they had never really run into the severe fogging conditions that occur with face masks and balaclavas. I also have seen cheap and on occasion not so cheap snowshoes failing due to low temps. If they want to go out and test their systems more power to them but they can test them on lesser hike rather than trying to check off a few more winter 4Ks.

Luckily the local news stations are hyping the cold stretch as a source of eyeballs so it should not be a surprise to anyone heading up.

 

[Grey J]

I did my standard 2 miles today in a light drizzle and with the temperature around 50*F. Where's my medal?

 

[skiguy]

I am not advocating woods bans or supporting the two votes for the Darwin approach. Sure there are plenty of folks either skilled and equipped enough to go out in the forecast conditions and some take it as a challenge or as training for "big mountains" elsewhere on the planet. My concern is for the clueless, the people who think they are all set but have never really tried out their system and training. NH AMC winter school prepped a lot of folks over the years but my guess that school is not even a blip on the social media scene. Given the weather this winter, the urban myth of the frog in boiling water tends to apply, folks may have gotten away with a lot for the last two months but add in very low temps and high winds and they may be way over their level of equipment and competence. Gear that is perfectly warm in 20 F is just not going to cut it at -20. Frostbite prevention become frostbite management. Moisture issues with fogging of glasses becomes a major issue, over the years I have encountered many folks who are dependent on glasses who are effectively blind as they had never really run into the severe fogging conditions that occur with face masks and balaclavas. I also have seen cheap and on occasion not so cheap snowshoes failing due to low temps. If they want to go out and test their systems more power to them but they can test them on lesser hike rather than trying to check off a few more winter 4Ks.

Luckily the local news stations are hyping the cold stretch as a source of eyeballs so it should not be a surprise to anyone heading up.

OK….but you did ask what can be done legally. Which would be a very slippery slope. Part of the learning curve to hiking and climbing is to watch the weather an extrapolate that to your experience and gear. It’s not anyone’s job to baby sit the ignorant. Some lessons have to be learned through experience for most individuals with this sport. Trying to legislate people into the knowledge they need is totally ridiculous. If not a restriction of one’s given personal freedoms. Yep…in a perfect world everyone survives without having to pay a bill. It’s not Darwinism it’s about taking personal responsibility for one’s actions.

 

[Remix]

I think its a great time for people to go car camping and try out the insulation in their gear. Any problems, just get back into the car...

I remember doing this years back and finding out that -40 rating on my bag was a lie. And when I added layers it pinched the bag and things got worse. I found out how freakin' bad a night of sleeping cold can be....there is a really bad mental component besides being on the verge of shivering. Gas cannister stove...forget about it..I got a sense of how my boots would do just standing around.

Same principle for day hikers who think they hike with enough equipment/food to get through one night....try it out...see what the foil blanket or bivy bag is worth.

 

[psyculman]

Funny, I was thinking of doing the same thing down here in RI.

Same here, last year it was -10 and hot tent time. But this year I've had some sort of cold/flu-ish thing for several weeks, and am not going to chance threats.

 

[peakbagger]

We used to take the Gorham scouts out in early February usually to build snow shelters or map and compass snow shoeing. We had a couple of times where the temps were in the minus teens. Temps really didnt set the go/no go but high winds did. One on event we discovered that MSR gas stoves could freeze up in the right conditions.

 

[JustJoe]

To answer the OP, you can't. Kate Matrosova knew the forecast and still decided to stick with her plan. Friday and Saturday are going to be sunny days. With this clueless generation of hikers we seem to have now, I will surprise me if these couple days of deadly weather pass without incident. I'd like to think that for at least Saturday morning there's either a USFS ranger or F&G officer parked at the OBP/FW trailhead. I think this weather warrants a blanket of security. Not so much for the clueless, but for SAR.

 

[DayTrip]

Luckily the local news stations are hyping the cold stretch as a source of eyeballs so it should not be a surprise to anyone heading up.

They always do. But people go out there anyway.....