I can't believe it!!!

[Ed'n Lauky]

Yesterday as I was heading home from Crawford Notch I passed by the winter trail head of the Ethan Pond Trail. I noticed that the parking area was not plowed and that there were quite a few cars parked along the highway. I wondered if they would have any problems. I looked while driving by and did not see any 'no parking signs'.

Well, I got my answer. Over on New England Trail Conditions Rolling Rock posted that he got back to his car yesterday just in time to keep it from being towed.

It troubles me a bit that a car would be ticketed in an area that isn't posted. But I could handle that. But it just blows my mind that the Sheriff would have a hiker's car towed knowing full well that he could return in the dark, cold, wet and tired and miles from anywhere with no cell phone service. To arrive back at the trailhead and find that your car had been "stolen"....well it just seems to me that it's wrong.

 

[peakbagger]

From a personal encounter with a Caroll county deputy sheriff on RT 16 down near Jackson the other day, there is a deputy sheriff with a rotten attitude in that area. There was a lot of ski traffic and with slippery road conditions he may have been overwhelmed but unfortunately he was not coordinating very well with his assistants at an accident scene and walking out in front of moving traffic to vent his frustrations is not a great idea.

There have been ongoing towing issues on an off in the whites every winter and during conditions when there is active plowing going like the last few days, the priority is on road plowing and the law is pretty clear, if you park on the pavement you may be towed. As far as the law is concerned parking on the paved shoulder of the road is the same as parking in the travel way. Given the blowing snow and in general dicey conditions on the road with high volumes of vacation traffic, cars can and do lose control and end up bouncing off the snowbanks, add in a few parked cars inside the snowbanks and it gets dangerous.Generally the worse locations for this are RT 16 and RT 302 including Imp Trail, 19 mile brook, and Ethan pond trail. Anyone leaving a car overnight have a much higher likelihood of getting towed

As for a hiker making it back to their car cold wet and tired, I agree its too bad for the hiker and since they all have their state approved appropriate hiking gear in their packs, I guess its time to pull out that emergency food and gear.

There are not a lot of great options for the hiker, the FS has limited funds and even if they do plow lots, its going to be very limited. Some state plow drivers may go back when they have a chance and wing back the snowbanks at trail heads but if anyone is overnighting and has left a car in the way, its probably not going to happen. The option is always there to hand shovel a hole in the snowbank but I expect 99% of the winter hiking public will go elsewhere or take their chances. I always felt that the parking fee was a good user fee but even when it was active, I found that many of the lesser trail heads got no attention.

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

If my memory is not failing me we had an identical discussion a few years ago after cars got towed at the Imp trailhead. The lesson seems clear: If you cannot park legally do not park.

 

[Raven]

I have been asked a couple times to move my car/truck when I've had it parked on the shoulder (paved) on US2 in Randolph when plowing has been necessary - it's been State Troopers there however, and they have been kind about it. They also clarified that cars needed to be off the pavement. I shoveled enough to get it off the pavement.

I have also had the unpleasant experience of having to shovel two very long tire trenches from the middle of Appalachia parking area out to the road to get a car out. I tried to look pathetic as the plows drove by but to no avail.

Sound advice - don't park in the middle of the lot in winter, stay in spots closer to the road, and I'd suggest having a snow shovel in the trunk if you already do not. The lot does not have first priority. It was plowed later that morning.

 

[RoySwkr]

I'd suggest having a snow shovel in the trunk if you already do not.

If hike with friends, bring a shovel for everybody

Have at least one big snow shovel and a pointed shovel or pick for hardpack

And yes, I've already dug out once this winter

 

[MikePS]

I get that the lots are lower priority, I was happy to see the Clinton Road lot being plowed Friday afternoon. I would even support a modest ($5?) increase in WMNF stickers dedicated specifically to help supplement plowing hiker lots. I carry a shovel, I can not imagine coming back at dark to no car, yikes. As far as the hostile sheriff, maybe his superior officer could be reminded the money winter tourists add to the NH economy.

 

[peakbagger]

The parking fee is unfortunately gutted as a source of revenue and generally the only lots they plow are traditional lots where there was a lot of use with no alternative. Its quite amazing most days to see cars parked on the side of the road north from 19 mile brook trail head in a potential tow zone while the great gulf parking lot is plowed just up the road with plenty of room.

Now if we could just get AMC to do their long term winter parking of summer vehicles at Camp Dodge instead of taking up 10% of the spaces at Pinkham it would be good start.

The hiking community does have friends in the local law enforcement community that keep an eye out on hiker parking lots so I wont generalize an opinion on the local law enforcement, everyone has a bad day and I expect this particular deputy was having his. The number of SUV's running well over reasonable speed in poor conditions was pretty rampant that day and I was surprised that even more vehicles were not off the road.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

Up in Crawford notch there were cars parked along the road from the Jackson parking to the center. Perhaps not as many as in mid August but it was very busy. At least the Jackson lot had been plowed. I left before 1:00 PM and there was no sign of Police activity up to that point. Even if your car were to be towed, up there you have a cell phone signal and you can easily walk to the AMC center and get warm.

This was a holiday weekend in a tourist dependent state and a popular trailhead parking had not been plowed and it could have been done on Friday knowing that Saturday would be a busy day. Potentially endangering someone's life for the sake of a few feet of plowed shoulder just doesn't jive with me. Put a ticket on it and "teach us a lesson." But don't, in the name of safety, put a person's life in danger. It's one thing to tow a car off the street in North Conway and another to leave a person helpless on a dark deserted road.

 

[Breeze]

As far as 16 through Pinkham Notch, the DOT drivers and trucks come out of the PN depot next door to PNVC. Their territory is just the stretch of 16 from Darby Field Inn to Gorham town line, and the goal is to have a plow truck passing any given point every 30 minutes. In really heavy weather, they'll tandem tango, 2 trucks in each direction one slightly behind and offset by half a plow rig's width. This helps them keep the full width of the road open and affords drivers more room in bad circumstances.

I've seen a certain plow driver from the PN depot ( he will remain nameless, LOL) creep up behind a spinning, fishtailing vehicle on Wildcat Hill, gently engage the rear bumper with the front plow blade and ease them up to the crest. Those guys are incredibly GOOD at what they do, but their first and foremost mission is to keep traffic MOVING. IF they see a driver in trouble, they will be the first to summon assistance.
Parked cars at roadside trailheads are not a priority, and they can be a most unwelcome hindrance.


As far as Carroll and Coos deputy sheriffs....... well, Pinkham and Crawford are USUALLY State Police territory, and the sheriffs/deputies only get called out in those locations when Troop F NHSP from Twin Mountain are maxed out. Which, of course, is the very time the sheriffs/deputies need to be cool heads, but really means they are in OVER their heads.

I remember being blue-lighted and sirened over in Jackson near the Red Barn Road by a Carroll Cty Deputy because I braked and swerved for a wild turkey who darted into the roadway from a blind driveway hidden by massive snowbanks. Pffft. Deputy was a major Class A jerk. If he hadn't been following ME so closely himself it would have been a total non-event. He locked up his brakes, I didn't, but his advice to me was " next time, just hit the damn nuisance bird." Like blood and guts and turkey feathers flying and my being in the snowbank would be a better solution ???

WTF Ever, dude. Git on down the road in front of me, TYVM. ( thats where he wanted to be anyway. )

Its full on winter ( yeah) in the North Country. If there are cars parked at marked but unplowed trailheads, plowing isn't possible, and even if it IS possible, an overnighted car may get buried, plowed in, or towed when deemed necessary.

We can't have it all. There may or may not be " rules" and common sense is not so common.

What's the saying........ there are no friends on a powder day?

Breeze.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

... Potentially endangering someone's life for the sake of a few feet of plowed shoulder just doesn't jive with me. Put a ticket on it and "teach us a lesson." But don't, in the name of safety, put a person's life in danger. It's one thing to tow a car off the street in North Conway and another to leave a person helpless on a dark deserted road.

I couldn't agree more!!

And just because the hiking community might have friends in the law enforcement community doesn't mean we can't complain, and do so LOUDLY when one of them makes poor choices. Ordering a vehicle towed under these circumstances denies the owner not only transportation but shelter, and is an extreme action. The actions of the officer/sheriff in question should be reviewed by his/her superior or review board.

 

[Brambor]

I agree with that. It's just a lousy move.

If they won't plow the road to the Ethan pond trailhead then just plow wide semicircle where the road starts and thus create a spot for parking for several cars. The parking decals we pay for should definitely account for this plowing.

 

[Lefty E]

Maybe we should be directing this towards DOT and not Carroll Cty Sheriff's Office....I think the procedure is DOT contacts law enforcement to tow vehicles under the motor vehicle laws,(RSA 262:32 or something like that) and if so the sheriffs/cops/troopers have no choice but to tow.... Rt. 16 at PNVC during April/May was famous for having lots of vehicles parked maybe not in correct manner and towing was common until the other parking lots were opened and towing does not seem to be as common now...and too bad rude sheriffs give others a bad name...some may try to help out hikers by offering lifts from one trailhead to another (heard that Coos Cty Sheriffs do that sometimes)...

 

[peakbagger]

The parking passes are federal USFS, the state doesnt get a dime of it. Appalachia and Lafayette place are both state areas and I think the Mt Jackson lot is also , while most of the other trailheads are USFS, like Mt Clinton Road and Sawyer River Road. I am not sure about the Ethan Pond trailhead. Its a patchwork and I agree its tough to figrue out who is responsible for what off pavement parking. No matter what if the parking is on the paved shoulder of the road you are taking your chances.

 

[sierra]

I get that the lots are lower priority, I was happy to see the Clinton Road lot being plowed Friday afternoon. I would even support a modest ($5?) increase in WMNF stickers dedicated specifically to help supplement plowing hiker lots. I carry a shovel, I can not imagine coming back at dark to no car, yikes. As far as the hostile sheriff, maybe his superior officer could be reminded the money winter tourists add to the NH economy.

Someone asking to pay more, not sure how many will jump on that band wagon, the goverment takes enough dont offer more, they will take it.

 

[RoySwkr]

The parking passes are federal USFS, the state doesnt get a dime of it. Appalachia and Lafayette place are both state areas and I think the Mt Jackson lot is also , while most of the other trailheads are USFS, like Mt Clinton Road and Sawyer River Road. I am not sure about the Ethan Pond trailhead.

The USFS expends funds for law enforcement and plowing, not sure if any goes to the state. If somebody else is being paid to plow the lots, it's them not the state highway dept that show get complaints about unplowed lots.

And while the parking lots may be owned by WMNF, the roadside is probably highway ROW hence controlled by the state

Ethan Pond "trailhead" is state park, however that road isn't usually plowed and the parking area is the paved apron where the road comes out so almost certainly highway ROW

I'll bet the towed cars on 302 were parked not entirely on the shoulder but at least one wheel in the travel lane, that's quite a different story

 

[SherpaTom]

"This is sad news for those of us who hike down before their buddies to get the car started and warm up only to find no car."

Seriously, this is sad news for all of us. Had the Imp Trail in my sights this winter for Middle Carter and now this news concerns me. Thanks for info Ed, I suppose we all need to be very cautious where we park our vehicles.

 

[Lefty E]

SherpaTom, Imp Trail both north and south are usually plowed out and there should be no issues with parking....lots of times hikers park at 19 mile trailhead and "bushwack" over via Camp Dodge to the south branch of the trail...after a good snow storm, I have never seen them not plowed out after 2 days...Great Gulf parking, however, I have seen not plowed out after 2 or 3 days...so I would not worry just pick a day where it has not snowed heavily a day or two before...Lefty E

 

[Trail Bandit]

Perhaps there is more to the story.The cops and or the sheriff usually get a cut of the fine when you go to court. The tow truck driver is happy as he gets big bucks for the tow and more bucks for keeping your car in the lockup. Follow the money and you will find out why this is happening.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

Just a quick note to say that when I passed by there yesterday the lower area had been plowed out and all the cars were parked well off the highway.

 

[RollingRock]

Yesterday as I was heading home from Crawford Notch I passed by the winter trail head of the Ethan Pond Trail. I noticed that the parking area was not plowed and that there were quite a few cars parked along the highway. I wondered if they would have any problems. I looked while driving by and did not see any 'no parking signs'.

Well, I got my answer. Over on New England Trail Conditions Rolling Rock posted that he got back to his car yesterday just in time to keep it from being towed.

It troubles me a bit that a car would be ticketed in an area that isn't posted. But I could handle that. But it just blows my mind that the Sheriff would have a hiker's car towed knowing full well that he could return in the dark, cold, wet and tired and miles from anywhere with no cell phone service. To arrive back at the trailhead and find that your car had been "stolen"....well it just seems to me that it's wrong.

I just caught this thread. When we arrived to spot our cars in the morning, we saw that the "winter" Ethan Pond trailhead was not plowed. The snow depth was such that our cars would get stuck if we attempted to force them in there. In fact, there was one car that appeared to BE stuck. I was here last winter and the road was plowed up to the gate. We were not crazy about parking our two cars alongside the road, but we didn't see many other options. There were not any 'no parking' signs that I can recall.

As we were finishing near dark [around 4:30pm] walking down the road, we saw off in the distance a police car [state police] with its lights on behind our cars. When we approached the police officer he explained that we just made it because he had just called two tow trucks to pull away our cars. He indicated you cannot park alongside the road during a snowstorm. I know better not to argue with the authorities so we hopped in our cards and drove off.

Later we talked about this amongst ourselves. It was dark. It was snowing. It was cold. There are not any houses nearby. We were in the middle of nowhere. Would we would have been able to get a cell signal? We don't even know what number to call. 911? Where would they have towed our cars? I suppose we could have tried to flag a car to give two of us a ride back to the Highland Center. If that failed, walk in the dark alongside the road, in poor visibility, with hazardous road conditions. It seemed to us that we would have been placed in greater danger if our cars had been towed.

As we were driving back to the Highland Center, we saw the spots used to park by ice climbers had been plowed way past the shoulder for them. One of them not far from the "winter" Ethan Pond trailhead parking area. Why could they not plow the "winter" Ethan Pond trailhead? Perhaps DOT forget to mention this particular area to their crew? As we got near the Highland Center, we saw cars parked alongside the road for the Mt. Jackson trailhead and they were not being towed.

Perhaps because of our incident and the discussion here on VFTT the "winter" Ethan Pond trailhead we be plowed the rest of this winter. For me, if I don't see this area plowed in winter, I'll either park in one of the ice climbers parking areas or find some other place to hike. But realistically, this should be plowed at all times since this trailhead does get a lot access for hikes to Ripley Falls, Ethan Pond and Mt. Willey.