Kahtoola-MICROspikes vs STABILicers

[bikehikeskifish]

I would like to see a bake-off vs. crampons myself. I.e., if I could only get one for Christmas, would the micro-spikes suffice for most winter conditions in the Whites? I know some folk will say "You MUST have crampons" and some will say "I get away with Stabilicers" just like the Nalgene vs. bladder, three-season vs insulated vs plastic boots, etc.

It would be cool to try them side-by-side.

So far, I've used Stabilicers twice. The strap is frayed where it connects to the footpad, and the screws, while none missing, are getting beat up. Plus they are heavy. Sadly I bought them from Campmor where they can get returned because they don't meet my expectations

Tim

 

[David Metsky]

I know some folk will say "You MUST have crampons" and some will say "I get away with Stabilicers" just like the Nalgene vs. bladder, three-season vs insulated vs plastic boots, etc.

Some hikes you will need crampons. I can't imagine going up something like Lions Head winter route without front points. I don't think micro-spikes will ever replace crampons, but they certainly can extend your range.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Would you say that 25%, 50%, 75% or 95% of the NH48 can be bagged in winter with Microspikes rather than crampons? Let's exclude the most-difficult routes and include a peak if there is ANY route, i.e., Jewell up Washington, rather than Lion's Head / Tuck's.

In other words, given limited funds, and "failing stabilicers" should I invest first in the microspikes or in crampons, the latter which cost 2-3 times as much.

Tim

 

[dug]

Hard to put a number on it. I've never worn stabilicers. 10-15 years ago I had more of a use for snowshoes than I do now. So many trails are so packed out they are useless.

Crampons? They like to be taken out for a ride on my pack alot, but don't make it on my feet very often. I seem to bareboot most of my hikes.

I would say 100% of the hikes could need crampons...or not. All depends on the weather and what the previous days weather has been.

If I had to make a choice, I'd go with crampons.

 

[DougPaul]

Would you say that 25%, 50%, 75% or 95% of the NH48 can be bagged in winter with Microspikes rather than crampons? Let's exclude the most-difficult routes and include a peak if there is ANY route, i.e., Jewell up Washington, rather than Lion's Head / Tuck's.

100% can be bagged without in summer. You are asking for a meaningless statistic--depends upon conditions.

In other words, given limited funds, and "failing stabilicers" should I invest first in the microspikes or in crampons, the latter which cost 2-3 times as much.

Crampons are the basic tool and a good pair will provide the greatest traction in icy conditions. (And yes, they can be used over bare rock with a bit of care, but this will generally dull the points.) For mixed ice and rock or easy iced conditions, then a less powerful traction aid such as instep crampons, Yaktrax, Stabilicers, or Microspikes is often appropriate. IMO, the issue is which of these less powerful traction aids is best, not is any one of them an adequate substitute for crampons.

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I asked about adequacy. I know which one is the best. It's also more money and of less use during the shoulder season. That's why I thought it would be handy to compare them side-by-side, you know, like on ski demo days.

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

I asked about adequacy. I know which one is the best. It's also more money and of less use during the shoulder season. That's why I thought it would be handy to compare them side-by-side, you know, like on ski demo days.

If one is serious about winter hiking and can only get one, I'd get real crampons. (In fact, when I started, only crampons and instep crampons were available. Most of us just carried crampons.)

If one is less serious and willing to turn back if the travel is more difficult, then just get insteps/yaktrax/stabilicers/microspikes.

For me, both is best. Full crampons for when they are needed and the less serious tools for less serious conditions to avoid wearing out my crampons. The less serious tools are faster and easier to put on and take off and easier to use on rock, gravel, etc. They also are very handy with patches of easy ice--they save a lot of time because one does not feel the need to constantly remove and replace one's crampons.

Doug

 

[skiguy]

Well put DougPaul. IMO when you need the Pons you need the Pons. Any need for a Bakeoff would be for secoundary devices mentioned already. Which one of these devices which would work probably would be left to the user and the particular trail environement and the user's boot. To not have some sort of Crampon instead of one of the mentioned secoundary devices IMO is foolish. Pons are primary...Screwboots, Yaks, Stabilicers, Microspikes, Insteps, are secoundary or visa versa. One coincides with the other in the shoulder seasons. Hopefully it will snow and ice and Pon season will be upon us and the secoundary traction device debates will be over.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Not really a "seasonal" issue

Even in midwinter there are plenty of days on the majority of trails where something like stabilicers or screwboots are all that you need, and can actually be safer than crampons over mixed terrain ( not to mention more comfortable and much less tiring over a long day). I generally bring a pair of Kahtoola steel crampons as back up, and for the occasional steep section where screwboots aren't secure enough, but 80% of the time on the majority of the 4k trails, screwboots get me through quite securely, with much less effort.

The trickiest part about making extensive use of "non-crampon" traction, is knowing when to say when, even if it is only for a short stretch, and put crampons on for a particlularly icy/steep section. In this sense, crampons are probably safer for those with less experience reading winter terrain conditions.

Of course, if there is thick water ice everywhere you look with no snow to cushion even short slips, full crampons are the ticket without a doubt.

But like many other issues, a lot of it boils down to the person - many people just feel "safer" in crampons, regardless of whether the terrain actually demands them. If I had a dime for every time I saw somebody wearing crampons in completely inappropriate places...

 

[iceNsnow]

I couldn't have said it better!

I totally agree w/ Tim and only wish I had some of his eloquence.


PS. I wouldn't mind some of his speed too, please!

 

[David Metsky]

PS. I wouldn't mind some of his speed too, please!

Might as well throw in some of his photographic abilities.

And I want a pony.

 

[Ed Poyer]

If I had to choose one...

...it would be crampons, because I can often ascend mixed, icy terrain more safely/comfortably than I can descend it. So, the descent may require crampons whereas the ascent did not. Also, when doing a loop, or out overnight, you may find descent or exiting conditions far trickier than your ascent conditions.

For me the big advantage of the stabilicers is that they allow me to retain a more normal gait, and are thus less fatiguing and easier on my knees, which also results in moving faster. Finally, no dangerous points to catch on clothing or trip me up late in the day.

Ed

 

[cbcbd]

In other words, given limited funds, and "failing stabilicers" should I invest first in the microspikes or in crampons, the latter which cost 2-3 times as much.

Tim

No need to pay that much - $19
and you get a piece of history

 

[bikehikeskifish]

No need to pay that much - $19
and you get a piece of history

I will buy your crampons for $38 and you can take the money and buy TWO pairs of those!

Tim

 

[Chip]

Would you say that 25%, 50%, 75% or 95% of the NH48 can be bagged in winter with Microspikes rather than crampons? Let's exclude the most-difficult routes and include a peak if there is ANY route, i.e., Jewell up Washington, rather than Lion's Head / Tuck's.

Tim, I have not yet hiked all 48 in winter and I have not yet hiked in Microspikes. Having said that, based on Tim's post and the reviews so far, I'd be willing to bet the Microspikes would satisfy 95% of your needs if you had to choose.

In other words, given limited funds, and "failing stabilicers" should I invest first in the microspikes or in crampons, the latter which cost 2-3 times as much.

Tim

Sierra Trading Post has Camp crampons for $85 and if you spend a bit more you get 20% off and free shipping, I think.

 

[Mats Roing]

I generally bring a pair of Kahtoola steel crampons as back up, and for the occasional steep section where screwboots aren't secure enough, but 80% of the time on the majority of the 4k trails, screwboots get me through quite securely, with much less effort.
...

I went up Wamsutta on Sunday with the MicroSpikes and they were solid all along except for one spot where I would have liked the frontpointed crampons like the crampons Tim talks about here: http://www.kahtoola.com/kts_steel.html#

Here is a youtube clip when I take off the Microspikes with mittens on. I'm sitting on the Auto Road since too windy to stand on one leg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM7_2nfOXxc

 

[DougPaul]

Would you say that 25%, 50%, 75% or 95% of the NH48 can be bagged in winter with Microspikes rather than crampons?

On some days it may be 0%.

We hiked Chocorua once via Champney Falls Tr. There had been snow on the ground, a warm snap, and then cold weather. The parking lot was a frozen lake. (Ice skates would have been appropriate...) We basically needed crampons to get out of the car. The trail was lumpy ice (frozen-in footsteps) all the way to the summit. (There might have been a bit of bare rock at the summit...) Needless to say, we kept our crampons on car-to-car. Some people even kept their crampons on back at the parking lot to push the cars out onto the road.

Stabilicers and microspikes didn't exist at the time (IIRC late '70s), but I think they would have been inadequate given the conditions.

Doug

 

[Mats Roing]

Would you say that 25%, 50%, 75% or 95% of the NH48 can be bagged in winter with Microspikes rather than crampons? Let's exclude the most-difficult routes and include a peak if there is ANY route, i.e., Jewell up Washington, rather than Lion's Head / Tuck's.

Tim

This assumes non-postholing conditions...... Snowshoes are usually the best solution in normal deep snow winters obviously......facing icy trails with not a lot of snow I would say the MicroSpikes would take care of 99% of the trails. I was jumping uphill on one leg on solid ice in the great Gulf last weekend with the MicroSpikes......you can ask Frodo and cbcbd.....

The 3/8 inch spikes do bite well into the solid ice.....they are ideal for something like a Pressie Traverse where there is a lot of ice/rock mix.....it's not awkward to hike on rock with the MicroSpikes due to the short spikes....and since the spikes are sitting on a loose chains they conform more easily to the shape of the rock and you won't have this ankle-twisitng feeling you get with full-length spikes......

 

[marty]

Had another fine time with them doing Moriah yesterday. Wore them for the entire hike. Their traction and ease of walking is every bit as good as Stabilicers, perhaps a bit more as you can sink the spikes into thick ice better, especially when stomping your feet. They are also a heck of a lot lighter and less bulky. There is no sign of wear and they stayed firmly on my Sorels.

They were not able to effectively handle some of the high angle thick ice on the Carter-Moriah Trail. Crampons would have been the best option, but we were too stubborn to switch as there were lots of bare rock areas, too.

Marty

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I have snowshoes. The issue is what to do about my already-showing-wear-after-exactly-two-uses Stabilicers as more difficult conditions approach.

I am most appreciative of the responses from folks who have used both. I'm still not sure which way to go, other than ideally to get both, but I'm not sure Santa is going to be that generous to me.

Tim