Klister application and removal.
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David Metsky
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Neil said:
- Put a strip of duct tape along the wax pocket of your skis
- Apply klister to the duct tape
- When finished, remove duct tape, throw it away.
Rick
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Dave,
I will immediately and forever be grateful to this jewel of an idea you just tossed out. You rise head and shoulders, towering above us sticky fingered klister-covered-gear carrying mortals. An idea so simple yet with results so far-fetching.
Thank you so much!
I will immediately and forever be grateful to this jewel of an idea you just tossed out. You rise head and shoulders, towering above us sticky fingered klister-covered-gear carrying mortals. An idea so simple yet with results so far-fetching.
Thank you so much!
trailbiscuit
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David Metsky said:
Where's the fun in that?
That's a great tip because applying klister can be a miserable experience, but well worth it, IMHO, because when you get it right skiing on it is a dream.
One thing to keep in mind is that your klister pocket should be shorter than your regular wax pocket. Otherwise, you will drag. The real key is to apply it as thinly as possible. Don't bother trying to spread it with the plastic spreader provided. Use your thumb. Then here's the trick: don't touch anything with that thumb. (Go to the bathroom first.
) Then put a glove on, by the time you finish your ski, the klister will be gone. Magic. It's one of the great mysteries of the universe.Skiing on klister is my absolute favorite.
Halite
New member
I've never tried the duct tape trick. Sounds like it would be convenient, but a drag on performance. One of the great things about klister days--especially blue klister days--is how fast the skis can run.
The following quote from skiwax.ca tells you everything you need to know about working with klister:
Applying Klister
Quick Links: Tech Page Home, Applying, Removal
General
Klister is a ski wax that seems to have a mixed reception. It can turn difficult skiing conditions into a very enjoyable day. Yet many people avoid it because of the "war stories" they have heard. As with most things in life your personal attitude strongly shapes how you approach klister. Start with a positive attitude and the result will be more positive. And more positive means a great day skiing.
What is Klister for?
Klister is a grip wax. As with regular grip wax it is designed to allow the snow flakes to penetrate into it. Regular grip wax is designed to work with snow flakes that have fairly stiff, strong and defined shape. A defined snow flake shape, for example, is with arms (as shown in the background of this web page). Klister is designed to work with snow flakes or crystals that are softer and are lacking much shape. The change in shape occurs for many different reasons.
Conditions that klister can be used in are:
warm snow (snow @ 0°C, air @ >0°C)
very aged snow
ice glazed track
Essentially any condition where there is difficulty with the snow penetrating into regular grip wax.
One question that is often asked is: why not just use a softer (warmer) regular grip wax? Well, you can. In fact that is often the easiest thing to do first before trying klister. But this has it's limits. In addition to klister being "grippier" than regular grip wax the glide portion is also adjusted. An alternative between regular grip and klister is Teho.
The first item to help you control your klister is the small sized ziploc freezer bag. One per klister. The plastic is heavy enough it will not tear and the ziploc ensures the klister will not escape if it decides to leave the tube.
During the off-season storing the klister (in the ziploc bags) in a cool to cold spot out of direct sunlight is best. Many people store klister in their freezer. Cold klister doesn't go anywhere. Warm klister expands and wants to go places. Remember, cool is, well, cool.
When storing your klister for travel keep it away from the vehicle passenger compartment. If you have a ski carrier box on top of the vehicle this is an excellent spot. After this the trunk, if available, is a good spot. In mini-vans and station-wagons position klister as close to the rear hatch as possible (this is the coolest spot). Never try and warm klister with the heater of the vehicle; you'll just be setting yourself up for trouble.
One of the primary reasons klister escapes its tube is from overheating. When warmed klister expands. This places stress on the tube & cap. This stress can cause klister to ooze past a cap not fully closed and cause stress fractures in the tube that eventually can crack creating a hole or series of holes for klister to escape through.
** Only warm klister as described below for the cleanest handling **
Applying Klister
A little klister goes a long way. Great gobs of klister are not needed for an effective wax job. Great gobs create great messes.
In a warm wax room note the kick zone that you are going to apply klister to. Clear any glide wax shaving away from where you are going to work. Glide wax shavings blowing into your klister job is not desired. The skis should be laying horizontal so that once klister is applied it will not run into the glide zone of the ski. Select the klister you are going to use and remove it from the ziploc bag.
The klister may be cool or cold depending how you have had it stored. You should never heat klister while the cap on tube is still attached. Klister expands as it is heated. If it is heated and then the cap is removed the klister will burst forth because it is escaping from the pressure in the tube. The easiest and safest method is to open the cap and see how runny it is before warming. Depending on the klister it may be runny enough already for you to apply. If the klister is still too cool to move you may heat the cap end of the tube, not the whole tube, with your hand or with a brief burst from a hair dryer or hot air gun. Remember you only need the klister to flow slightly. You do not need it to be runny yet.
Place small dabs of klister along the kick zone on both sides of the ski groove. Each dab should be about 3cm apart with each dab about the 4mm to 7mm diameter by 1mm thick. Now place the cap back on the tube and place the tube back in the ziploc bag. Place the klister in cool location.
With a hair dryer or hot air gun warm the ski and klister on the ski together. Using your thumb, a klister applicator or scraper edge smooth the klister in the kick zone so it is evenly applied. Now warm the klister until it becomes runny. Wipe up any excess klister that flows over the edges of the base. Let the klister cool for a few minutes before moving the ski. After a few minutes move the klistered skis outside to a shady spot away from falling snow. Lay the skis down horizontal on the ground with the bases facing up (to the sky). Let the skis cool for 10 to 15 minutes. This avoid snow clumping on the bases and the klister running into the glide zone. Now test the skis.
If there is not enough grip you may need to: (a) add a bit more klister to thicken the layer, (b) choose a different klister, or (c) extend the length of the kick zone. If there is too much grip with the klister and normal grip wax could not provide enough you may want to overwax the klister with grip wax (see: applying grip). An alternative is to use a grip wax such as Teho which is between regular grip wax and klister.
Some people will use a torch to heat klister. A torch can be difficult to handle and we do not recommend it with klister. This position is especially true with fluorocarbon-based klister. The high temperature of a torch can easily exceed the safe limit for flurocarbons. You also risk melting or sealing the ski base (the base melts at 135°C).
Removing Klister
Do not try and remove klister by directly using a plastic scraper. You'll just end up with a very sticky scraper.
The most effective way is while the ski and klister are still cold to place a strip of polishing cloth, fiberlene or toilet paper over the klistered area. [Strong and absorbant toilet paper works best. Cheap toilet paper gets cheap results. Using polishing cloth is always better.] You want the klister to stick to the polishing cloth or toilet paper. Now bring the ski into a warm room and allow it to warm up. You may use a hair dryer or a hot air gun to warm the klister. Once warm, using a plastic scraper, scrape the cloth/paper and klister combination. This should remove the vast majority of klister. You may accelerate the warming by using a hair dryer; never use a torch. Now dab a small amount of wax remover onto some polishing cloth or a rag and wipe the kick zone clean. Now clean the plastic scraper of any klister on it before returning it to your wax box. Plastic scrapers are a low-cost and effective tools and every skier should have a few (glide, grip, klister).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SkiWax.ca Home
If you have any questions about this web site or it's content please contact [email protected] or telephone (519) 747-8032.
SkiWax.ca, 535 Blue Beech Blvd., Waterloo, ON, N2V 2T4.
© 2002, 2003, 2004
The following quote from skiwax.ca tells you everything you need to know about working with klister:
Applying Klister
Quick Links: Tech Page Home, Applying, Removal
General
Klister is a ski wax that seems to have a mixed reception. It can turn difficult skiing conditions into a very enjoyable day. Yet many people avoid it because of the "war stories" they have heard. As with most things in life your personal attitude strongly shapes how you approach klister. Start with a positive attitude and the result will be more positive. And more positive means a great day skiing.
What is Klister for?
Klister is a grip wax. As with regular grip wax it is designed to allow the snow flakes to penetrate into it. Regular grip wax is designed to work with snow flakes that have fairly stiff, strong and defined shape. A defined snow flake shape, for example, is with arms (as shown in the background of this web page). Klister is designed to work with snow flakes or crystals that are softer and are lacking much shape. The change in shape occurs for many different reasons.
Conditions that klister can be used in are:
warm snow (snow @ 0°C, air @ >0°C)
very aged snow
ice glazed track
Essentially any condition where there is difficulty with the snow penetrating into regular grip wax.
One question that is often asked is: why not just use a softer (warmer) regular grip wax? Well, you can. In fact that is often the easiest thing to do first before trying klister. But this has it's limits. In addition to klister being "grippier" than regular grip wax the glide portion is also adjusted. An alternative between regular grip and klister is Teho.
The first item to help you control your klister is the small sized ziploc freezer bag. One per klister. The plastic is heavy enough it will not tear and the ziploc ensures the klister will not escape if it decides to leave the tube.
During the off-season storing the klister (in the ziploc bags) in a cool to cold spot out of direct sunlight is best. Many people store klister in their freezer. Cold klister doesn't go anywhere. Warm klister expands and wants to go places. Remember, cool is, well, cool.
When storing your klister for travel keep it away from the vehicle passenger compartment. If you have a ski carrier box on top of the vehicle this is an excellent spot. After this the trunk, if available, is a good spot. In mini-vans and station-wagons position klister as close to the rear hatch as possible (this is the coolest spot). Never try and warm klister with the heater of the vehicle; you'll just be setting yourself up for trouble.
One of the primary reasons klister escapes its tube is from overheating. When warmed klister expands. This places stress on the tube & cap. This stress can cause klister to ooze past a cap not fully closed and cause stress fractures in the tube that eventually can crack creating a hole or series of holes for klister to escape through.
** Only warm klister as described below for the cleanest handling **
Applying Klister
A little klister goes a long way. Great gobs of klister are not needed for an effective wax job. Great gobs create great messes.
In a warm wax room note the kick zone that you are going to apply klister to. Clear any glide wax shaving away from where you are going to work. Glide wax shavings blowing into your klister job is not desired. The skis should be laying horizontal so that once klister is applied it will not run into the glide zone of the ski. Select the klister you are going to use and remove it from the ziploc bag.
The klister may be cool or cold depending how you have had it stored. You should never heat klister while the cap on tube is still attached. Klister expands as it is heated. If it is heated and then the cap is removed the klister will burst forth because it is escaping from the pressure in the tube. The easiest and safest method is to open the cap and see how runny it is before warming. Depending on the klister it may be runny enough already for you to apply. If the klister is still too cool to move you may heat the cap end of the tube, not the whole tube, with your hand or with a brief burst from a hair dryer or hot air gun. Remember you only need the klister to flow slightly. You do not need it to be runny yet.
Place small dabs of klister along the kick zone on both sides of the ski groove. Each dab should be about 3cm apart with each dab about the 4mm to 7mm diameter by 1mm thick. Now place the cap back on the tube and place the tube back in the ziploc bag. Place the klister in cool location.
With a hair dryer or hot air gun warm the ski and klister on the ski together. Using your thumb, a klister applicator or scraper edge smooth the klister in the kick zone so it is evenly applied. Now warm the klister until it becomes runny. Wipe up any excess klister that flows over the edges of the base. Let the klister cool for a few minutes before moving the ski. After a few minutes move the klistered skis outside to a shady spot away from falling snow. Lay the skis down horizontal on the ground with the bases facing up (to the sky). Let the skis cool for 10 to 15 minutes. This avoid snow clumping on the bases and the klister running into the glide zone. Now test the skis.
If there is not enough grip you may need to: (a) add a bit more klister to thicken the layer, (b) choose a different klister, or (c) extend the length of the kick zone. If there is too much grip with the klister and normal grip wax could not provide enough you may want to overwax the klister with grip wax (see: applying grip). An alternative is to use a grip wax such as Teho which is between regular grip wax and klister.
Some people will use a torch to heat klister. A torch can be difficult to handle and we do not recommend it with klister. This position is especially true with fluorocarbon-based klister. The high temperature of a torch can easily exceed the safe limit for flurocarbons. You also risk melting or sealing the ski base (the base melts at 135°C).
Removing Klister
Do not try and remove klister by directly using a plastic scraper. You'll just end up with a very sticky scraper.
The most effective way is while the ski and klister are still cold to place a strip of polishing cloth, fiberlene or toilet paper over the klistered area. [Strong and absorbant toilet paper works best. Cheap toilet paper gets cheap results. Using polishing cloth is always better.] You want the klister to stick to the polishing cloth or toilet paper. Now bring the ski into a warm room and allow it to warm up. You may use a hair dryer or a hot air gun to warm the klister. Once warm, using a plastic scraper, scrape the cloth/paper and klister combination. This should remove the vast majority of klister. You may accelerate the warming by using a hair dryer; never use a torch. Now dab a small amount of wax remover onto some polishing cloth or a rag and wipe the kick zone clean. Now clean the plastic scraper of any klister on it before returning it to your wax box. Plastic scrapers are a low-cost and effective tools and every skier should have a few (glide, grip, klister).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SkiWax.ca Home
If you have any questions about this web site or it's content please contact [email protected] or telephone (519) 747-8032.
SkiWax.ca, 535 Blue Beech Blvd., Waterloo, ON, N2V 2T4.
© 2002, 2003, 2004
Goo Gone
I use the cheap citrus solvent, Goo Gone, which is available in most hardware and grocery stores. Purists will howl in protest about it drying bases. (shrug) I carry a small bottle in my wax kit along with a rag for field stripping the stuff. The trick is to let it set for a few minutes before scrapping.
Another variant of the toilet paper approach I've heard of but never tried is to sprinkle corn starch on the klister before scraping.
One thing I can attest to for camping trips is to scrape the klister in the morning after its frozen up. It will usually come off like kick wax then. Just use a wax scraper or ski edge (careful now, don't chop a finger off).
I use the cheap citrus solvent, Goo Gone, which is available in most hardware and grocery stores. Purists will howl in protest about it drying bases. (shrug) I carry a small bottle in my wax kit along with a rag for field stripping the stuff. The trick is to let it set for a few minutes before scrapping.
Another variant of the toilet paper approach I've heard of but never tried is to sprinkle corn starch on the klister before scraping.
One thing I can attest to for camping trips is to scrape the klister in the morning after its frozen up. It will usually come off like kick wax then. Just use a wax scraper or ski edge (careful now, don't chop a finger off).
afka_bob
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Had to read that twice....
I'll bet that sentence looks exactly the same in German, give or take a couple of letters.Neil said:
I used klister once. Once. OK, maybe twice. Never again. Well, not if I can help it. If I can't ski without it (and so far that has never happened in a variety of messy conditions), I can always go to the movies or read a book. The newer soft (warm) red waxes do amaxing things and (as gooey as they are) are a lot easier to handle (and remove).Halite said:
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Rugger
New member
Way back in High School (early '70s), when cross country skis were just wood, our ski team would burn the stuff off with blow torch and rags except for silver klister which never comes off and was only good for when rain filled the tracks. Actually saw a ski break trying to separate a pair that had too much klister applied, then carried bottom to bottom. As someone above said, if klister is needed now, I'd rather stay in.
Man, what a bunch of weenies.
How can somebody be smart enough to prime an Optimus stove but can't handle a bit of klister?
IMO, klister has big upsides and big downsides.
In wet, icy or old snow, I'll take it over nowax skis any day. And I'll definitely double-dog take it over the super-soft red waxes except when that snow is very new. IMO, special red and similar are just as messy with a much narrower range of being useful. I even seem to recall a trip about a year ago on a rainy December afternoon near Bear Notch when a certain afka_bob sheepish admited that my klistered skis were gripping better and the wax lasting longer than his goey red stuff.
On the down side, klister does take longer to apply and if wrong is a pain to clean up in the field. I can think of numerous days when a certain afka_bob banged his head on a nearby tree in frustration as "klister boy" (that would be me) futzed with his skis.
How can somebody be smart enough to prime an Optimus stove but can't handle a bit of klister?
IMO, klister has big upsides and big downsides.
In wet, icy or old snow, I'll take it over nowax skis any day. And I'll definitely double-dog take it over the super-soft red waxes except when that snow is very new. IMO, special red and similar are just as messy with a much narrower range of being useful. I even seem to recall a trip about a year ago on a rainy December afternoon near Bear Notch when a certain afka_bob sheepish admited that my klistered skis were gripping better and the wax lasting longer than his goey red stuff.
On the down side, klister does take longer to apply and if wrong is a pain to clean up in the field. I can think of numerous days when a certain afka_bob banged his head on a nearby tree in frustration as "klister boy" (that would be me) futzed with his skis.
afka_bob
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dave.m said:
Priming a white gas stove you only risk explosion and a fiery death
dave.m said:
I don't know, some messy days, the no-wax are really good. And the warm reds are (in my experience) less messy than klister. But the rest is probably true.
dave.m said:
Better, true, but I was still gripping and never even had to take my gloves off to wax. Or fire up a blow torch. Or clean the skis, my pack, and then my gloves.
dave.m said:
...and I still gripped pretty well w/o the klister.
Dave, in all seriousness, having the full range of waxes and klisters and knowing when and how to use them means higher performance. It is a worthy pursuit and I do salute you. That said, it is more than I want to learn, do, or clean up after. And I don't have to, as long as I ski with you and you are kind enough to do all the klister-futzing (don't try to say that in front of young children).
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Halite
New member
"klister-futzing" I love that term! As toTrailbiscuit's suggestion to use your thumb instead of the plastic spreader, I can't seem to keep it on only one thumb. So does that make me an ambidextrous klister futzer?
I have a pair of waxless skis for the really tough days, especially when there's a mix of old and new snow on the trail and the temperature is hovering either side of freezing. In those cases, waxless skis keep me from spending more time waxing than skiing and getting little performance for the effort. But since I spend so much of my time in an office or on the train, if there's snow on the ground, whatever the condition, I'll choose skiing over reading a book or watching a movie.
I have a pair of waxless skis for the really tough days, especially when there's a mix of old and new snow on the trail and the temperature is hovering either side of freezing. In those cases, waxless skis keep me from spending more time waxing than skiing and getting little performance for the effort. But since I spend so much of my time in an office or on the train, if there's snow on the ground, whatever the condition, I'll choose skiing over reading a book or watching a movie.
professor
New member
If you have a friend who is a chemist - a squirt bottle of of the solvent hexane is downright miraculous for klister removal- just use it in a well-ventilated space, and AWAY FROM ANY FLAMES!
Nessmuk
Active member
You might consider what the MSDS sheet says about hexane, as it is not nice stuff to have around:professor said:
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H2381.htm
Having said that, I have been known to use Coleman stove fuel (which is mostly naptha) to dissolve stubborn icky klister. it will dry out and totally remove all of your base wax, so i always plan to do a hot base wax prep after a major klister cleaning. Using it sparingly liquifies the klister enough to use a scraper effectively. I've not noticed any detrimental effects to my skis after a number of years with this procedure.
The MSDS for Coleman fuel is:
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/msds/lantern.pdf
trailbiscuit
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Halite said:
I think it just makes you a gooey mess!
The one thumb gig only really works with warmer klisters. Once you get into the green and blue range you just about always need to heat them up. I've used a blowtorch before, but that can sautee a ski base if you're not careful. I recommend a regular old hair dryer.
Goo Gone works great for removing klister. As far as drying bases goes, I don't think it's all that different from the "official" solvent you would get from Swix or Toko. It may not be quite a good for your bases as the "official" stuff, but I'm not that worried about because my name isn't Vagaard and I'm not racing the Vasaloppett. Just scrape the klister, then wipe with Goo Gone, Scrape, goo one more time and you're good to go.
Talcum Powder or fine saw dust. Sprinkle on generously and scrape the klister off with a putty knife. Add more powder as needed. The powder dries the klister and makes it less tacky (what's a word for the opposite of sticky?)
Best of all your skis smell like a baby's butt. No wait...
Best of all your skis smell like a baby's butt. No wait...
