Lost and now candidates for a reckless conduct fine from NH Fish & Game

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IMHO: Map and compass should be the minimum for a free ride out. It indicates you care enough about where you are that you could at least ask someone else to indicate this on the map and which direction to go next. If someone does not care where they are, why should anyone else (without paying the appropriate fee)?
 
I speculate that we have rushed to judgement that this thread is a rush to judgement based on speculation and little fact.
 
Rush to judgment? Ok, here is what is stated in the article:
1) "'Everything here points toward negligence,' said Conservation Officer Mark Ober."
2) "The hikers called 911 for help from the summit, prompting a nearly six-hour search in the dark." (Ober)
3) "The dad and daughter were not wearing hiking gear and the daughter was wearing shorts when they set out around 3 p.m. to hike to the top of a 5,000 footer, where it was about 50 degrees at the summit" (Ober)

If they were ON the summit when they called 911, it was at best "getting" dark before they got there. Even Captain Obvious could figure out that if it's getting dark before you get to the summit, it won't get any lighter...until morning.

Since it was stated by the Conservation officer, I don't see anyone here judging anything. As to why the criticism is aimed at the Dad, if it were a Mom and Son, I'm wagering it would be directed at the Mom.
 
MadRiver said:
I normally stay out of these discussions, especially given there were no unleashed dogs needing rescuing, so I’m a little confused how this is a rush to judgment? The father started late and didn’t even have the basis tools with which to insure a safe return and will more than likely get find. So please explain the rushing part.
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Words like "moronic" aren't judgemental?

Roxi said:
They started at 3. They had over 5 hours of daylight on a 5 mile roundtrip trail that they could have turned around on at any point. Averaging 1 mph is not speedy.
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Why is the start time criticized?


It isn't so much that THIS thread has gotten out of hand, as the anticipation that it will, given past discussions.
 
Paradox said:
....TNF, Shania's dad let her text message his last MI!
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?? Ok, I'm hip and all... but I'm lost at the reference. :confused:
Help me out here.

SherpaKroto said:
Even Captain Obvious could figure out that if it's getting dark before you get to the summit, it won't get any lighter...until morning.
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He's my favorite, and probably most underrated superhero.
 
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Dugan said:
Why is the start time criticized?
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Exactly. That was my point. 3 pm is not too late to start a 5 mile hike when you have until 8:20 before sunset. I saw these two at Whirlpool ledge around 3:30. That indicates a good pace. As far as being in shorts, it was in the high 70s. I was in shorts. They had enough time to get to the summit and back averaging a pace of 1 mph which is not unreasonable. What I'd like to know is WHY they were on the summit so late? I agree that going without a map was not wise and they should have made the decision to turn around sooner, but there was nothing when I saw them around 3:30 to indicate they were automatically headed for trouble.

Dugan said:
It isn't so much that THIS thread has gotten out of hand, as the anticipation that it will, given past discussions.
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Exactly! We've been here before in other threads about lost hikers.
 
The fact that they called 911 and asked for rescue and then were found to be fine and in no imminent danger is enough reason IMO for them to have to pay for the "rescue effort". They could have simply hunkered down on the trail and waited for morning to descend. Yes it would be cold and uncomfortable and maybe a little scary but they were fine. Instead they called in as an emergency and forced the state to respond with a rescue squad and spend all those $$$$. Seems like the very reason the law was written.
 
I agree with everything Sherpakroto said.

Also, some people seem really put out that there are comments on the start time. Yes, we understand some of you are rock star hikers, but start time is dependent on the hiker's ability. While starting a hike at 3:00 pm might be fine for some, obviously it didn't work out so well for this duo since they had to call for a rescue.
 
cbcbd said:
Paradox said:
....TNF, Shania's dad let her text message his last MI!
Click to expand...
?? Ok, I'm hip and all... but I'm lost at the reference. :confused:
Help me out here.
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Translated:
"That's not fair, Shania's dad let her alert the medical staff via text message regarding his own Myocardial Infarction* some time ago!"

*Medical speak for heart attack

Consider your hip-ness quotient increased.

Smitty
 
Who Cares!?

You know, who really gives a crap? We don't know who these people are and nobody gave a crap about them before today. They're alive, maybe they'll get a fine (from people who probably know more about the situation and are not just speculating like we are) and they'll probably just deal with it.

The thing is, to the best of my knowledge, nobody on VFTT has ever got one of these "reckless hiker" fines and you know what, I doubt that anyone on this site ever will. So if two jerks from Pennsylvania got a fine, who cares? Ha ha to them. They're lucky one of those deadly New England Black Bears didn't eat them.

The thing is if we really cared about people like this we'd be offering to build street lights on all the trails so that nobody could ever get lost in the dark.

-Dr. Wu
 
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If you had made a judgment as to their inability to reach the summit and return safely based solely on your observation at 3:30, then you would be guilty of a rush to judgment. The fact that they needed to be R-E-S-C-U-E-D, coupled with the late start and having no navigational or luminary equipment IMHO allows one to make a legitimate judgment as to their lack of preparedness to finish the hike.
 
dr_wu002 said:
The thing is, to the best of my knowledge, nobody on VFTT has ever got one of these "reckless hiker" fines
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WRONG ! :D
(Sorry Mats but I'm still laughing at this)
 
Tim Horn said:
They could have simply hunkered down on the trail and waited for morning to descend. Yes it would be cold and uncomfortable and maybe a little scary but they were fine. Instead they called in as an emergency and forced the state to respond with a rescue squad and spend all those $$$$.
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They were fine when they were "rescued", yes, but whether they would have been "fine" in the morning after spending a 40-50 degree misty and foggy night atop a mountain is certainly questionable, as that is the temperature range that many hypothermia deaths occur.

I am somewhat amazed that you would prefer them to have taken that risk rather than call for help, regardless of how they got into that situation.
 
Dugan said:
Words like "moronic" aren't judgemental?
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nope - in this case fact. Should I have said - its ok, nobody messed up, its all good, its society's fault, maybe they should sue the WMNF for not putting up enough warnings?

give me a break. the damn F&G officer was quoted explaining the mess ups they are being considered for a fine - which from what I understand, you really need to mess up to actually have to pay a fine for recklessness.

I don't need a congressional inquiry to know this dude made a few bad errors - and now its time to pay for those errors. he is lucky he didn't pay with daughters life - easy to get hypothermia after sweating and night falls - its gets chilly and all you have is a t shirt and shorts.
 
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Roxi said:
Exactly. That was my point. 3 pm is not too late to start a 5 mile hike when you have until 8:20 before sunset. I saw these two at Whirlpool ledge around 3:30.
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for most here its not a problem, like i said, based on the report, it sound slike they were novices at best.

common sense says 3pm is not a smart start time for the 3rd highest pressie for folks at their skill level - which I asusme was not much based on what happened.
 
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