Chip
Well-known member
anyone know a site where I can look up a history on monthly temps for any particular area ?
monthly average temps historic ?
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IndianChris
New member
That's funny, I was just thinking the same thing. Temperature graphs would be great.
Hey ADK88...aren't you a meteorologist?
Hey ADK88...aren't you a meteorologist?
I've found good stuff at NCDC before, but it's rather a maze and I can't remember exactly where to go for the basic free summary.
Also take a look at Northeast Regional Climate Center.
Also take a look at Northeast Regional Climate Center.
Chip
Well-known member
thanks, it looks like you can pull the info month by month there;
http://www.nrcc.cornell.edu/page_summaries.html
Chip
Well-known member
thanks again. it took me about 10 minutes to pull out 8 years of monthly temps for CT.
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Kevin Rooney
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I often use this link.
grouseking
Well-known member
For NH (selected locations)
http://www.unh.edu/stateclimatologist/nh_data_summary.htm
Northeast
http://www.nrcc.cornell.edu/
Play around these websites....lots of good stuff
http://www.unh.edu/stateclimatologist/nh_data_summary.htm
Northeast
http://www.nrcc.cornell.edu/
Play around these websites....lots of good stuff
Chip
Well-known member
Okay, here's a math question; I'm trying to compare heating oil consumption (which I have for the last 8 years) weighted for average monthly or seasonal temperatures to try to determine if a bunch of money I spent on new windows and insulation is actually saving me anything. Any ideas ? Doug ?thanks.
Oh, and Dave...I ask because my wife will let me do more big hiking trips if we're saving on oil consumption !?!?!
Oh, and Dave...I ask because my wife will let me do more big hiking trips if we're saving on oil consumption !?!?!
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Tito Alba
New member
That's simple
The answer is "Yes"
Work the variables any way you like.
The answer is still "Yes"
Hike away Sir!
The answer is "Yes"
Work the variables any way you like.
The answer is still "Yes"
Hike away Sir!
jfb
Active member
If you're on automatic delivery, your bill should have some numbers on it that record degree days since previous deliveries. Simply divide degree days by gallons purchased.
degree days
Chip
Well-known member
adktyler
Active member
Nope, not at all. Are you referring to the thread on the new ADK Weather Website? I was simply posting that for somebody else. I can't be of any help here.
jfb
Active member
You may be able to find the numbers in a local newspaper also.
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DougPaul
Well-known member
Easy:
Compute therms_used/degree_days for corresponding periods before and after the new insulation was installed.
where:
therms=amount of energy used (from your bills)
degree_days=estimate of the amount of heating required by the weather.
(Both numbers must be for the same time period.)
Note: degree-days are only an estimate of heating demand. They are not gospel.
You can get state-wise monthly degree-day numbers from http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/documentlibrary/hcs/hcs.html Unfortunately ut only goes up to Oct 2009. (You may have to wait a few more months to get the data for this winter.)
Another source is http://www.degreedays.net/ with a description at http://www.energylens.com/articles/degree-days. This is based upon wunderground.com data and can be computed for your location.
You can get up-to-date daily degree-day numbers for specific cities from http://www.wunderground.com/, but you have to add them up yourself.
Note: if you use the heating fuel for other purposes, you might want to estimate and subtract that usage. For instance, I use gas for heat, hot water, and cooking. By looking at my summer usage, I can estimate my non-heating usage and then subtract that from my monthly totals to estimate my heating usage to plug into the above equation.
I also had some insulation installed recently and am using ~1/3 fewer therms this winter than last, but I haven't gotten around to getting and applying the degree-day data yet. (Just found degreedays.net in the process of preparing this response...)
Doug
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Chip
Well-known member
Thanks Doug. Good info, as usual. While you were looking, I found the same or similar info http://www.degreedays.net/# and can get 36 months for free and 10 years data for $9, which I might do. As you said, once you have the HDD's, it's simple division with the oil consumed. FWIW: Based on the info I have so far, there's no way I'm consuming 1/3 less oil after the windows and insulation, but I'm still in the process of weighting the info for a better comparison and the final numbers on this season obviously aren't available yet.
Stan
Well-known member
With any data you have to check the source for consistency. Temperature averages taken at the same locations(s) should be used. I understand that some data is based on a consolidation of recording stations and that there may be some inconsistency in the data.
For heating energy savings calculations, the easiest and most reliable source would be heating degree days. We worked with this in calculating base lines and savings. I don't have the link since I retired a few years ago but I believe you might find it on on the NOAA website. They have data for many geographical locations (and similar data for cooling degree days, too). This source was considered a legal standard incorporated into energy performance contracts. *** and it is free.
Chip, the payback on insulation is one of the best of any improvement you can make. Windows, however, are hard to justify strictly on the basis of heat lost. What we found was that savings from windows often exceeded the engineering calculation (based largely on U-values and air infiltration) because new windows are less drafty and tenants do not need to compensate for drafts by turning up the heaat ... i.e., the same comfort level is possible at a lower thermostat setting.
For those contemplating window replacement, go double pane. Triple pane usually isn't cost effective unless perhaps on an extremely cold, windy, exposed wall, particularly north walls. Triple pane skylights have some merit, too. Low E glass is worthwhile, argon or any other gas filled space between panes is a waste of money. Look at the quality of the seal between sash and jamb, remember that drafts are the biggest problem and cheap seals and especially tilt out windows break down rather quickly for a product that should otherwise have a real long life.
My experience suggests these no brainers for energy savings like 1) use of compact flourescent bulbs in all lighting fixtures and 2) programmable thermostats (though my wife doesn't like my settings). I'm happy to share experience regarding heating systems and cogeneration with anyone asking for it.
As for the challenge to save heating costs to justify more hiking ... that's simple ... just turn down the heat while you're gone ...
For heating energy savings calculations, the easiest and most reliable source would be heating degree days. We worked with this in calculating base lines and savings. I don't have the link since I retired a few years ago but I believe you might find it on on the NOAA website. They have data for many geographical locations (and similar data for cooling degree days, too). This source was considered a legal standard incorporated into energy performance contracts. *** and it is free.
Chip, the payback on insulation is one of the best of any improvement you can make. Windows, however, are hard to justify strictly on the basis of heat lost. What we found was that savings from windows often exceeded the engineering calculation (based largely on U-values and air infiltration) because new windows are less drafty and tenants do not need to compensate for drafts by turning up the heaat ... i.e., the same comfort level is possible at a lower thermostat setting.
For those contemplating window replacement, go double pane. Triple pane usually isn't cost effective unless perhaps on an extremely cold, windy, exposed wall, particularly north walls. Triple pane skylights have some merit, too. Low E glass is worthwhile, argon or any other gas filled space between panes is a waste of money. Look at the quality of the seal between sash and jamb, remember that drafts are the biggest problem and cheap seals and especially tilt out windows break down rather quickly for a product that should otherwise have a real long life.
My experience suggests these no brainers for energy savings like 1) use of compact flourescent bulbs in all lighting fixtures and 2) programmable thermostats (though my wife doesn't like my settings). I'm happy to share experience regarding heating systems and cogeneration with anyone asking for it.
As for the challenge to save heating costs to justify more hiking ... that's simple ... just turn down the heat while you're gone ...
Chip
Well-known member
As for the challenge to save heating costs to justify more hiking ... that's simple ... just turn down the heat while you're gone ...
I just threw that in to try to make this thread hiking related.
I'm sure my wife turns the heat UP when I'm gone. Good info, Stan. Thanks. Now that I have some numbers, I'm not sure what to do with them. If I divide therms consumed (I'm using gallons of oil) by the total HDD's for a heating season I get a number like .1765 for one season and .2000 for a second season. What does that mean ? That I consumed 13.3% more oil adjusted for the temperature in the second season or that I consumed 11.75% less oil adjusted for the temperature in the second season, or something else entirely ?
DougPaul
Well-known member
More. (Smaller weather-normalized fuel consumption is better.)
However, the measurements are noisy (ie have errors) and small differences in either direction might not mean anything.
FWIW, I'm seeing a reduction of ~25% in my therms/HDD numbers from before and to after installing more insulation, so presumably the insulation is saving heat for me. However, this is based on only 3 months of data (corresponding months before and after) so I'll recheck it when more data is available.
Doug
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peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
To continue on with thread drift, For whats its worth, I find that retrofitting windows with cellular blinds that incorporate side seals is a better alternative than replacing windows (as long as you windows are new enough that they dont have sash pockets). I have standard cellular blinds on my office windows without the side seals, but on cold days, I can still feel a significant draft arond the perimeter. I installed the cellular blinds with the seals on three other windows in the house and there is zero detectable draft from the windows. The remainder of the windows are on my list once I do some drywall work.
If you windows have sash pockets, either change them out and make darn sure that you insulate the pockets or retrofit the existing sashes to a spring design (this works but it requires woodworking skills to do it well).
By the way the cellular blinds with side seals qualify for the 30% tax credit so the net cost are less than standard cellulars. I got mine from a place in VT.
If you windows have sash pockets, either change them out and make darn sure that you insulate the pockets or retrofit the existing sashes to a spring design (this works but it requires woodworking skills to do it well).
By the way the cellular blinds with side seals qualify for the 30% tax credit so the net cost are less than standard cellulars. I got mine from a place in VT.
