More trail closings?

[bikehikeskifish]

Is there an official release on extending stay-at-home? All I could find with Google was

https://www.wmur.com/article/sununu-expect-stay-at-home-order-to-continue/32703892
...should expect the stay-at-home order to remain in place a little while longer...
"We're anticipating the stay-at-home order to stay in place for a couple more weeks," Sununu said.

Tim

Sununu also announced he was extending the state’s Stay at Home Order for two more weeks, but when that period ends on June 15 the order will be lifted.


Tim

 

[peakbagger]

Is this a chicken and egg situation?

Friday hotels and others offering short-term rentals can open up to any New Hampshire resident or out-of-stater who has first quarantined in the state for at least 14 days.

So if someone is from out of state do they have to sleep in their car or the woods for 14 days before checking into a hotel room?

As usual what the the governor put in writing does not line up with the actual new rules for the short term lodging that appear to be that an out of stater would need to self affirm that they had quarantined for 14 days prior to checking in. I know many honest folks from out of state that have been self quarantining for a couple of months, does that affirmation count towards the NH 14 day quarantine?

 

[ChrisB]

Is this a chicken and egg situation?

Friday hotels and others offering short-term rentals can open up to any New Hampshire resident or out-of-stater who has first quarantined in the state for at least 14 days.

So if someone is from out of state do they have to sleep in their car or the woods for 14 days before checking into a hotel room?

As usual what the the governor put in writing does not line up with the actual new rules for the short term lodging that appear to be that an out of stater would need to self affirm that they had quarantined for 14 days prior to checking in. I know many honest folks from out of state that have been self quarantining for a couple of months, does that affirmation count towards the NH 14 day quarantine?

It's th same confusing deal in Maine. I called my kid for a translation and her take was if you come to Maine from away you better stay put in your lodgings for 14 days. Which is silly, especially if you are at the Hampton Inn.

 

[peakbagger]

Various news reports in NH is that the lodging staff will have out of state guests sign a self affirmation that they had self quarantined for 14 days prior to the visit.

 

[iAmKrzys]

Various news reports in NH is that the lodging staff will have out of state guests sign a self affirmation that they had self quarantined for 14 days prior to the visit.

Can anyone imagine that a person who wants to stay for the night at a hotel in New Hampshire asserts that they did not self quarantine if that's what is required to get a room?

 

[Mike P.]

Can anyone imagine that a person who wants to stay for the night at a hotel in New Hampshire asserts that they did not self quarantine if that's what is required to get a room?

I agree with the thought, however for those of us who have been avoiding crowded places other than grocery stores and wearing a mask, a hotel room is more risk than I want to take. Employers in CT would have you quarantine at home for two weeks after that one night before you could go back to work.

 

[Salty]

Besides the folks coming up not complying with the spirit of the emergency orders, if not the actual orders themselves, some businesses have taken it upon themselves to do whatever they please.

As More N.H. Businesses Violate Emergency Orders, Sununu Cautions Against ‘Snitching’

Great message. The public should ignore illegal activity. Really?

I'm fairly certain there have also been plenty of people flat out lying to get a hotel room, saying they were visiting Granny with COVID. There's just been too much traffic heading north in the late afternoon and too much coming back on weekend mornings to say these folks all have camps (and whatever other reasons such as staying with friends).

Personally, I thought Sununu was doing a fine job at the outset of this, not going overboard, putting in reasonable measures. Now it strikes me as haphazard in regards to messaging, enforcement and reopening. At this point, I'm pretty much to the point of open everything up, because what's the point anymore. Less than 2% growth per day here in NH, curve is bent, and it's obvious we can't stop anybody from doing anything they please.

This pandemic was bad, but not what I'd call catastrophic (i.e., highly contagious + highly deadly to all demographics). When (not if, though perhaps not in our lifetimes) that happens, I think the oblivious nature of the human race as witnessed these past few months will result in a not insignificant part of the population dying off unnecessarily. Sigh.

 

[B the Hiker]

Can anyone imagine that a person who wants to stay for the night at a hotel in New Hampshire asserts that they did not self quarantine if that's what is required to get a room?

If someone attests in writings to something that is false, and then they cause (even inadvertently) harm to someone else, that changes the nature of liability. In English: someone drives up not knowing that they are positive, falsely attests that they quarantined, and then inadvertently infect someone who then dies, could face both civil and criminal penalties.

News of that happening could impact people's actions later on, one hopes.

Brian

 

[Mike P.]

If someone attests in writings to something that is false, and then they cause (even inadvertently) harm to someone else, that changes the nature of liability. In English: someone drives up not knowing that they are positive, falsely attests that they quarantined, and then inadvertently infect someone who then dies, could face both civil and criminal penalties.

News of that happening could impact people's actions later on, one hopes.

Brian

While true in theory, if people come into contact with many people throughout the day or a couple of days, it will be hard to determine which one person who walked by someone was the one responsible. Going back to pre-covid19, if I worked in a high-rise building with an elevator and a multi-level parking garage, I came into contact with people in the garage elevator, the building elevator, co-workers, we may have shared a coffee pot or the café had an urn where dozens of people that morning got coffee before me. I then went to lunch in a food court, which meant another elevator ride to and from lunch, maybe a cup of coffee at (insert chain here) on the way back and then at the end of the day, another elevator ride in the building & the garage. BTW, all 75 of my co-workers, did the same thing, rode with 90% different people, went to the other coffee chain, the other food court. On the way home I ran an errand, (milk at a convenience store, or a few quick items at the grocery store and a bottle of wine at the package store in the same plaza.) and then was back home.

How do you prove which one person you came into contact with that gave it to you? They are saying upwards to 75% of the population may be asymptomatic, if I'm the one being charged and my lawyer can't create a reasonable doubt, I picked the wrong lawyer.

 

[skiguy]

Most folks seem to be making their own decisions on how they are living their lives at this point. Bottom line...most people are doing what they are going to do. Whether it is right or wrong. Unfortunately we are seeing what people are really made of. From blatantly disregardIng CDC and local government guidelines to full on paranoia. Only time will tell at this point. Unfortunately there will be more thinning of the herd as a result from both voluntary and involuntary actions by oneself as well as others.

 

[ChrisB]

Most folks seem to be making their own decisions on how they are living their lives at this point. Bottom line...most people are doing what they are going to do. Whether it is right or wrong. Unfortunately we are seeing what people are really made of. From blatantly disregardIng CDC and local government guidelines to full on paranoia. Only time will tell at this point. Unfortunately there will be more thinning of the herd as a result from both voluntary and involuntary actions by oneself as well as others.

All this makes me wonder what the American people have devolved into. Obviously we are not as hardy as our ancestors. But as recently as WWII folks handled blackouts, rationing, shortages of food and goods, and other deprivations willingly and with grace.

Who are we, anyway?

 

[peakbagger]

I did a run by Pinkham notch yesterday (Sunday). There were two manned FS vehicles parked in front of the concrete barricades at the Pinkham Notch entrance. The two overflow lots are still blocked but just a bit south there is a unmarked pullover on the east side of the road with parking that had hikers vehicles. It would be the closest logical place for those hiking the AT up over the Wildcats to park. The Wildcat lot of still blocked but folks are parking along the sides of the road near the main entrance rather than heading down the hill and parking at the north entrance.

The Carter Dome lot was full.

 

[Mike P.]

I have no interest in climbing Mt. Washington this year with the expected crowds, however, I am thinking that with the PNVC closed, any other lot with a Washington trailhead must be a zoo. Is the Ammonoosuc Lot open or Great Gulf? (GG makes Washington a much harder trip) Is the Rocky Branch lot open? Would that be the best choice from Rt 16 to climb Washington? (or a long trip from GG to the AT then Old Jackson Road to Nelson Crag - that's from memory so I may have missed a trail or misremembered Nelson Crag's start)

 

[B the Hiker]

It's Monday and my Facebook feed is once again filled with selfies of people from Massachusetts and Connecticut standing on top of mountains, maskless, in one case next to seven other people. One explained, "Hiking is an essential activity," and "if people can golf in New Hampshire, I can hike."

Each posting has over 100 "likes."

It's disheartening.

 

[Mike P.]

How can someone in charge tell each state's leader that they need to dominate the states citizens who in some cases have become unruly & at the same time tell people to revolt against their leaders stay at home orders. How is NH's leader not getting the Whitmer twitter beatings?

B brings up a topic I'd like some feedback on but as skiguy said, people are going to do what people are going to do.

Are people hiking in Masks? Where I've been sheltering in place, (or haunting the nearby woods with 30+ trips this year), I see anywhere from 0-10 people in two hours and it's easy to step off several feet in this hardwood area.

Are you sitting on summits with them on? I'd rather avoid the known busiest summits (Monadnock, Presidentials, Franconia Ridge, Greylock, Bear (CT & NY) Algonquin or any hike out of the ADK HPIC, etc) but considering that the typical thing to do at the summit is have some water and food, I'm taking the mask off any way for that. If I am taking pictures and can not be far away from others on a summit, wearing a mask is the polite and proper thing to do. (No West Bond or North Kinsman or Hancock summits, no room to social distance although going very early or late should mean you are unlikely sharing the summit.)

If you are putting them on when you come in sight of an oncoming hiker, are you wearing it around your neck. If I had it around my neck for a couple of miles, let alone a few hours into a hike, even U wouldn't want that over my mouth and nose.

Just being out for a short period on the humid days last week wearing a mask for a few minutes makes me wonder how on earth people will wear them the whole day at the Orlando resorts in July when they open? Will their be rioting in Disney by anti-maskers on a wicked hot and humid day?

Regarding Chris' point on what have we become, other governments threaten their people with death if they don't comply or their reporting of sick people is highly suspect. When I'm contemplating humanity, at times I think God should have had the tigers and lions have a land ho feast as soon as Noah put the ramp down. The Dodo's & other species would have thanked them for it.

 

[richard]

As suggested, I feel that the states that don’t have many cases of infections should open up. As long as people can be considerate of others and follow the guidelines and just practice common sense. Otherwise, things will collapse. Perhaps some are anxious for that to happen.

 

[TCD]

I'm hopeful that enough people will take voluntary action to keep people safe that the next wave will be smaller and grow more slowly. We're doing more as a society now than were were in Feb and early March. I only have my friends and family as anecdotal evidence, but it seems most of them are cautiously stepping out, with a eye on potential outbreaks/super spreader events. We are skeptical of any lasting lulls in the pandemic without more reliable antibody testing and/or a vaccine, or scientifically validated breakthroughs in our understanding the risks and spread of the virus. We are hopeful and optimistic.



Who? I don't know of anyone who anxious for it to happen. I know plenty of people are anxious about what will happen if the next wave is worse than the first. We see complacency and misinformation and the politicizing of public health - which is frustrating and upsetting - and we struggle to validate our hope that the coming days will be better than the ones before.

I know a crowd of people who are anxious for a collapse to happen.

Russia; Ukraine; Covid all didn't do the job. Riots are the current "best hope."

I predicted this with precise accuracy in this post:

https://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?61201-More-trail-closings&p=453502&viewfull=1#post453502

None of this surprises me at all. Only the naive are surprised by any of this. Get all this resolved, and watch the next thing pop up. Predictable as the sunrise. Get used to it; it's going to be non-stop until November 3.

 

[David Metsky]

Moderator Note
Everyone's been pretty good so far, just a reminder to keep political commentary out of this discussion.