Mount Clay Name Change Up Again

[Waumbek]

I do not see that this has been posted yet, so here goes. I am paraphrasing a section of Mike Dickerman's latest "The Beaten Path" column published in the March 3rd Littleton Courier..

The U. S. Board of Geographic Names (BGN) is seeking public comment on a proposal to rename Mount Clay in the Presidentials, named after statesman Henry Clay in 1848, to Mount Reagan, in honor of Ronald Reagan.

To recap, continuing the paraphrasing, the Republican- dominated NH legislature approved the name change in 2003, before Reagans's death. The proposal could not advance to the federal level, however, because BGN does not allow naming or renaming after living persons and requires a five year interval between death and commemorative naming or renaming. Reagan died in 2004, hence the BGN can now consider the proposal to rename Clay to Reagan.

Dickerman goes on record as opposing the change mainly because he sees no particular reason to make the change--it aint broke, don't fix it--and, were one to be made, he would prefer someone more relevant to the White Mountains, such as Pres. Wm. Taft, who signed the Weeks Act, which culminated several decades of efforts to "save" the White Mountains and created the WMNF, into law in 1911 and actually visited the White Mountains.

If we have to have a presidential name in the Presidentials, I'd support Taft as well, although I also happen to think it aint broke.

Express your opinion to the US BGN at http://geonames.usgs.gov/

Scroll to the bottom of the home page and you will find the email address of Exec. Sec. Lou Yost. Write to him.

I guess you know that too much political bashing will lock this thread. Be nice.

 

[NewHampshire]

I too agree it ain't broke, but I also have to say I don't get why all the damn bumps have to be named for Presidents just because it is the "Presidential Range". If there were ever a more deserving name to be given to Mt. Clay it should be Mount Weeks (yes I know we have it already, but we have plenty of Owl's HEads and Sugar Loaves, so why not). If that don't work then how about the second deserving name Mount Lever (after Asbury Lever....an obscure name that I know Ridgewalker would recognize , but still deserving none the less.)

Of course we live in the day and age, most unfortunately, where people would love to keep the name Mt. Clay simply because they think it is named for the singer Clay Aiken.

Brian

 

[Dave Bear]

Truthfully, I kind of wish we knew them all by their native American names! Don't know if all of them had names but the lore and respect they had for the mountains is commendable!

 

[RickB.]

Truthfully, I kind of wish we knew them all by their native American names! Don't know if all of them had names but the lore and respect they had for the mountains is commendable!

I'm with you. Denali is an example. Just saying it inspires the lore within.

 

[DougPaul]

The announcement: http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/gazvector.download_geonames_file?p_file=1763826422766422, issued Oct 26, 2009.

Doug

 

[RoySwkr]

There is also an issue about peaks in Wilderness not being named for people

I am going to suggest that an unnamed peak be renamed rather than changing a name

 

[jrichard]

I'm not steadfastly opposed to the name change, but I think it is silly and self serving, not honoring. I'm guessing it was made without thinking the whole thing through. Now that dems control the NH legislature, should we expect a Mount Kennedy next?

Anyway, I received a reply from the USGS.

It said the USGS has only 2/22 votes. They also pointed out that the name change is already NH state law.

They also brought up a good point:

We also cannot help but wonder why the State legislature was not presented
with such opposition as we have received when it was deliberating the
matter.

I guess it is partially my fault for not complaining in 2003. (Although I don't recall any notice of this until after it happened.)

 

[tb69wemt]

whether you are for or against the name change matters little to me. I would be more interested to know how many of you will be on the trail at 12:01 am the day the name changes? Who will be the first to summit Mt. Reagan? (assuming the name change happens) Who will be the first to complete the new Presi traverse? These are the things I want to know........I know I will be trying

 

[griffin]

They also brought up a good point:

We also cannot help but wonder why the State legislature was not presented
with such opposition as we have received when it was deliberating the
matter.

I guess it is partially my fault for not complaining in 2003. (Although I don't recall any notice of this until after it happened.)

That's only a "good point" if in fact there wasn't opposition to the name change. And although people might not have taken the issue seriously at the time as state law or no, the USGS is the body that decides the name, not the NH legislature, I'm not sure that's the case.

 

[Ridgewalker]

I will let them know to rename the ravine to Bonzo, the road to Stallion and the scenic vista with some comical use of the word Wyman in it.

 

[Guthook]

I'm not steadfastly opposed to the name change, but I think it is silly and self serving, not honoring.

I'm with you on this one. It doesn't change the mountain one bit, except that, as a few people here suggest, a bunch of folks will feel the need to hike it again just to say they've climbed Mt Reagan. So if you climbed it while it was Clay, does that mean you haven't climbed the mountain once it gets renamed? Foolish.

As far as a name change honoring someone, I'm also skeptical on that point. How many people climb Mt Washington and think when they get to the top, "that George Washington was a cool guy." Or at the top of Adams say, "John Adams... now there's a great president." I'm guessing less than 0.01%. People climb mountains because they're big, they have good views, it's fun, etc. Not because it honors a dead guy.

So I guess I am opposed to a name change, but not because of politics or anything like that. Just because it is silly and pointless.

 

[spider solo]

I'm not much of one knowing the name of mnts I am looking at from a summit.

A fellow I was with last time would occasionally ask the name of various peaks we could see...after a few times I had to tell him I just really don't pay attention to what the names were unless I happened to be on the mnt hiking it.

Still, it is very important to some people and some will want to be the 1st to hike it forward , backward from east, west, north south...etc. etc.
Doesn't much matter to me as long as they are enjoying themselves.

To me it will always be the mnt formerly known as Clay. I personally don't know how long any signage with Reagans name on it will last in the whites but that just speculation and not an opinion of any political view.

If name changes are inevitable I would vote for the method that was used in the old days when a bunch of guys went up there with a bottle (or was it a jug) of "spirits" name em whatever they thought was cool.
Then come back down and disagree about which one got named what....

 

[Kevin Rooney]

...To me it will always be the mnt formerly known as Clay. I personally don't know how long any signage with Reagans name on it will last in the whites but that just speculation and not an opinion of any political view.

Thirty seconds?

 

[Amicus]

To me it will always be the mnt formerly known as Clay.

Me too, if it comes to that. I hope instead it remains just Mt. Clay. I speak not as a disser of RR, but as a fan of tradition and the Whigs.

I would rather be right than be President.

- Henry Clay

 

[SteveHiker]

I would rather be right than be President.
- Henry Clay

Then rename this for Clay. It is the Presidential Range after all. Not the Dead Politicians Range. (granted there's a lot of overlap)

 

[Billy]

I hope they change the name to Mt Reagan. I'll proudly call it by its new name. But whether they change it or not, it's no big deal; that summit will still have my favorite view of Great Gulf.

...I personally don't know how long any signage with Reagans name on it will last in the whites...

Removing any sign because it has Reagan's name (or any other President's name) on it would be the act of a first-class puss. Takes about as much courage as the turd who scribbles "AMC Huts Suck" on the trail signs. You oppose something, be a man about it and do something to change it; don't vandalize property.

 

[Amicus]

It is the Presidential Range after all. Not the Dead Politicians Range. (granted there's a lot of overlap)

I hope that doesn't mean Jackson (not the Prez.) and Franklin are also at risk. Clay, with Webster and Calhoun, towered over quite a few of the Prez's in the interim between the Founding Fathers and the Civil War. (But F. Pierce is underrated.)

Billy: I'm with you 100% on defacers.

 

[MichaelJ]

My map shows the summit of Clay as fully in the Great Gulf Wilderness, which would make any new summit sign verboten, no?

 

[RoySwkr]

here is my response to BGN, note time warp

On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:23:27 -0500 GS-N-MAC BGNEXEC <[email protected]>
writes:
> the State Names Authority cannot and should not be
>asked to comment because this name change is State law since 2003.

>The Board on Geographic Names could not consider the matter until
>now
>because commemorative names cannot and will not be applied to
>natural
>features for a living person or until a person has been deceased for
>at least five years.

The five-year rule is presumably to prevent euphoria after a recent death
from causing inappropriate changes. I would say that this should equally
apply to votes by other governments - that is, votes taken within 5 years
should be invalid and the state should be asked to vote again on this
change.

As near as I can tell, the new name has appeared only on one fundraising
letter from the Republican Party and is not in common use unlike the
popular name change to Mount Eisenhower.

>We also cannot help but wonder why the State legislature was not
>presented
>with such opposition as we have received when it was deliberating
>the matter.

In fact it was. I attended the public hearing on the name change and I
believe that all testimony based on geography was against this change and
the favorable testimony was from people who wanted something/anything
named for Ronald Reagan. They cared nothing about Federal guidelines for
names in Wilderness areas (which Mt Clay is) or the 5-year rule.
(Transcripts of this hearing can presumably be obtained from the state.)
The bill passed on a party-line vote in the Republican-controlled
legislature based on euphoria for the recent President.

-rs

 

[sierra]

I still call Pierce, Clinton, I do not like that change either ( although in a thread today I used Pierce for a beginner to not confuse him) name changes mean little to me I just ignore them, I will always refer to Clay as Clay regardless, I hope people asking me for directions if this goes through understand that. ...............