Mt Cabot Fatal

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ChrisB

ChrisB

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Bad News: Yet another hiker succumbs to a medical emergency trekking in the Whites.

What is frustrating is there usually is no follow up published regarding the nature of the problem. Thus we don't gain any insight into the cause and can't incorporate that knowledge into our own personal safety approach.

The sudden nature of this tragedy in a relatively young woman (40) got me wondering about a possible allergic reaction to an insect sting.

Question: Do any of you (who are not allergic) carry an Epipen in your kit just in case someone might need it?
 
ChrisB said:
What is frustrating is there usually is no follow up published regarding the nature of the problem.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I was just thinking this when I read about this story the other day. I'm not sure if it's just the publicity of it this year but it seems like there were an unusual amount of "medical emergency" fatalities in 2022. I haven't taken the time to go back and attempt to tally the incidents but we are up to what, 5 or 6 now? I have to wonder if it is a function of the post pandemic surge in hiking, maybe bringing people less fit than "typical" for a hiker, and heart related overexertion is the cause. But as you mentioned, we don't generally know the details.

EDIT: Was curious enough about this to read a bit more and apparently HIPAA laws regarding a person's personal health information apply for 50 years after death. I wonder how many families in a hiker fatality situation do not want the cause of death shared? I wonder if it is more a question of having to follow up after the fact and disturb the families at a difficult time versus the family not wanting to share.
 
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Due to HIPPA rules for medical records confidentiality, causes of death are frequently not available unless the family voluntarily releases it.

The cost of a on a Epipen is very steep for someone without insurance or a high deductable heath care plans. About $650 for a pack of two. They also expire in 12 months.

My pure speculation is more folks are out hiking and that is going to increases incidents. I also so an extension in demographics, hiking used to be a younger persons game, lots more older folks seem to have taken up the hobby.
 
Tom Rankin said:
I'll just say that this was not an inexperienced person.
Click to expand...

Didn't say they were. I'm just wondering about fitness levels, not just in this case but in general. Even seemingly healthy people can have heart attacks and other health issues. People often push themselves too far as well.
 
peakbagger said:
Due to HIPPA rules for medical records confidentiality, causes of death are frequently not available unless the family voluntarily releases it.
Click to expand...

That would explain a lot. Never really thought of that. I thought when you were deceased that was no longer an issue. When there are drunk driving fatalities alcohol levels are usually cited despite that being something a family would want to be held confidential. Heart attacks and allergic reactions would seem like the kind of thing people wouldn't mind disclosing.
 
peakbagger said:
Due to HIPPA rules for medical records confidentiality, causes of death are frequently not available unless the family voluntarily releases it.

The cost of a on a Epipen is very steep for someone without insurance or a high deductable heath care plans. About $650 for a pack of two. They also expire in 12 months.

My pure speculation is more folks are out hiking and that is going to increases incidents. I also so an extension in demographics, hiking used to be a younger persons game, lots more older folks seem to have taken up the hobby.
Click to expand...

Good point Peakbagger. I had not considered HIPPA.

Here is info about a $10 alternative to the EpiPen from another manufacturer, in case anyone is interested.
 
Speaking of Epipens, this is time of year when wasps and yellow jackets start getting "grumpy".
 
DayTrip said:
Didn't say they were. I'm just wondering about fitness levels, not just in this case but in general. Even seemingly healthy people can have heart attacks and other health issues. People often push themselves too far as well.
Click to expand...

You did imply that she was inexperienced and it sounds like you're trying to find fault with the deceased, Daniele Papa, even if that wasn't your intent. Such comments ts are best left to the comments section of a news site. BTW, experienced and fit hikers succomb to cardiac-related deaths, including deceased members of VFTT. I think it's a stretch in this case, even moreso because of TFR's information.

My uninformed thought is that, as Chris B. suggested, it could have been an allergic reaction. Other possibilities that come to mind are an asthma attack or an uncommon condition that Ms. Papa may or may not have been aware of. Regardless it is tragic.
 
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TEO said:
You did imply that she was inexperienced and it sounds like you're trying to find fault with the deceased, Daniele Papa, even if that wasn't your intent. Such comments ts are best left to the comments section of a news site. BTW, experienced and fit hikers succomb to cardiac-related deaths, including deceased members of VFTT. I think it's a stretch in this case, even moreso because of TFR's information.

My uninformed thought is that, as Chris B. suggested, it could have been an allergic reaction. Other possibilities that come to mind are an asthma attack or an uncommon condition that Ms. Papa may or may not have been aware of. Regardless it is tragic.
Click to expand...

Good grief. Why is everybody so defensive on this forum? I think you guys are being way too sensitive and reading a lot into this because you apparently know this person and are reading intent into what I meant as a very, very generic comment. My exact words from above:

"I have to wonder if it is a function of the post pandemic surge in hiking, maybe bringing people less fit than "typical" for a hiker, and heart related overexertion is the cause"

No reference to experience and I am speculating about all of these incidents collectively. And I also specifically stated fit people are not immune to heart disease in post #5. I have no idea who this person is or the circumstances and had zero intent to disparage the person. Like Chris, I wish there would be more information in these "medical issue" instances so there is a bit more clarity about trends in these accidents.
 
DayTrip said:
Good grief. Why is everybody so defensive on this forum?
Click to expand...
I think it is a result of the fact that this board is very old comparatively to other hiking forums. With that the lack of fresh material that has not already been discussed is contributory. Therefore, we have been reduced to grinding into the ground a list of primary issues over and over. This has morphed into a limited array of characters/members that have come to know each other's tones, myself included rather than a fresh take on issues. Therefore, the focus has become more about each other's online persona and whether we agree, disagree in addition to a rhetorical examination of one's words. From my reality here I believe character judgment has become too pivotal rather than discussing matters that are centric to hiking. I will be the first to admit I am guilty of all of the above. I guess you could almost call it contributory negligence on many member's part.
 
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DayTrip said:
Good grief. Why is everybody so defensive on this forum? I think you guys are being way too sensitive and reading a lot into this because you apparently know this person and are reading intent into what I meant as a very, very generic comment. My exact words from above:

"I have to wonder if it is a function of the post pandemic surge in hiking, maybe bringing people less fit than "typical" for a hiker, and heart related overexertion is the cause"

No reference to experience and I am speculating about all of these incidents collectively. And I also specifically stated fit people are not immune to heart disease in post #5. I have no idea who this person is or the circumstances and had zero intent to disparage the person. Like Chris, I wish there would be more information in these "medical issue" instances so there is a bit more clarity about trends in these accidents.
Click to expand...

How does ""I have to wonder if it is a function of the post pandemic surge in hiking, maybe bringing people less fit than "typical" for a hiker," not imply inexperience? [Ed. Emphasis added.]

I don't know Ms. Papa, but there was nothing in the reports to indicate that her tragic death was a result of a lack of fitness, nor was there any indication that she was inexperienced. (What inexperienced hiker chooses Cabot?) Whether you call it sensitivity or "contributory neglicence"—I like that term!—it bothers me when people seek to find fault and/or criticize a recently deceased hiker, even more so when it is clear that when the death is the result of a medical emergency and not the result of standard poor planning or decisions on the hike, e.g. not bringing the proper clothing or a headlamp. (I'm all for post-mortem analysis to prevent preventable injury and death.)

If you're curious about a perceived increase in hiker deaths, that's probably best posted as a separate thread, and ideally, with data to support your perception.
 
Other than one poster here stating this hiker is experienced with no substance to back it up with, it is entirely possible by just reading the brief article in the OP to only extrapolate or infer what actually occurred here. Which this board seems to be pretty good at. I personally have no problem inferring or not that inexperience or experience for that matter may have been involved. The only fact at this point is that no one here based on the cited article really knows either way. Also, I do not think anyone in this thread was trying to deliberately find fault with the victim. This is just the kind of incoherent fluff some of us seem to be pretty good at around here that I was speaking of in my last post. I look forward to try sticking to the facts going forward and scrolling past the moral policing which most of the time only amounts to a hill of beans.
 
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I did not know Ms. Papa personally, but going by her posts in FB hiking groups, she appeared to be quite qualified. My condolences to her friends and family. :(
 
skiguy said:
I think it is a result of the fact that this board is very old comparatively to other hiking forums. With that the lack of fresh material that has not already been discussed is contributory. Therefore, we have been reduced to grinding into the ground a list of primary issues over and over. This has morphed into a limited array of characters/members that have come to know each other's tones, myself included rather than a fresh take on issues. Therefore, the focus has become more about each other's online persona and whether we agree, disagree in addition to a rhetorical examination of one's words. From my reality here I believe character judgment has become too pivotal rather than discussing matters that are centric to hiking. I will be the first to admit I am guilty of all of the above. I guess you could almost call it contributory negligence on many member's part.
Click to expand...

Skiguy, I believe you have hit the nail squarely on the head
 
skiguy said:
Other than one poster here stating this hiker is experienced with no substance to back it up with,
Click to expand...
FWIW, she was a fairly recent 46R.

And FWIW again, I was not calling anyone out. I was just stating 1 fact that I thought was relevant to the discussion.
 
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