Newbie Kayaker seeks advice from petite paddlers

[Roxi]

I've been thinking about taking up kayaking for a long while and finally took the plunge. In addition to seeking advice from other kayakers, I've also been reading, and trying out several different boats. What I've learned about myself so far is that I prefer a touring kayak (I like the way they handle), but need something under 50 lbs. which pretty much excludes the heavier cheaper plastic ones. I have to be able to tote my boat and get it on and off my car independently or this isn't going to happen.

Of the 6 boats I've paddled, I've been most impressed with the fit of those that are designed for petite paddlers as I'm only 5' 3". I'm assuming that like with choosing a bicycle or hiking boots, the fit is the most important thing. If it's not comfortable or I can't control it due to being the wrong size, it's the wrong boat for me. Am I assuming correctly?

So far, I've narrowed the field down to the Eddyline Fathom LV (15' 6" long, 47 lbs. Carbonlite), and the Necky Eliza Composite (15 ' 3" long, 40 lbs.). I haven't actually paddled the Eliza Composite yet, but hope to soon before making any decisions. The Eddyline Merlin LT is also an outside possibility that I want to retry, but I'm tempted to go for the Fathom LV over the Merlin LT due to its features. While I plan to start out kayaking on calm lakes and other quiet water, and do the vast majority of my paddling in those settings, I hope to someday kayak along the seacoast. I have no plans at this time to ever paddle whitewater rapids down a river.

I'd love to hear from other petite paddlers, especially women like Carmel if possible, what their thoughts are on choosing a kayak, as I think their experiences will be more like mine due to being similar sizes. Sorry, Darren, but I'm having a hard time picturing you and I choosing the same boat based on our vastly different heights, upper body strength, etc. Many thanks!

 

[darren]

I've been thinking about taking up kayaking for a long while and finally took the plunge.

You mean you tried it and fell over?

(I) need something under 50 lbs. which pretty much excludes the heavier cheaper plastic ones. I have to be able to tote my boat and get it on and off my car independently or this isn't going to happen.

It is good that you realize this now. A lot of people buy a heavy boat and then never paddle because it is too hard to get it on the car or carry by themselves.

Of the 6 boats I've paddled, I've been most impressed with the fit of those that are designed for petite paddlers as I'm only 5' 3". I'm assuming that like with choosing a bicycle or hiking boots, the fit is the most important thing. If it's not comfortable or I can't control it due to being the wrong size, it's the wrong boat for me. Am I assuming correctly?

You are exactly right. Fit and feel is everything. The one thing I would say is that "feel" can be a tough thing when you are a novice. What you think of as "tippy" right now might seem stable a few months from now. There is primary stability and secondary stability. Primary is how stable you feel right out of the gate and how hard it is to get the boat up on it's side. Secondary stability is how stable the boat is once you get it up on it's side. Most boats that seem very stable have high primary stability. It takes an act of God to get the thing up on it's side. But once you get it there, you have no hope of bringing it back. It is going over.

A boat that might seem very tippy at first could have excellent secondary stability. Meaning it is easy to get up on edge, but when you get there you can keep it there, turn etc, and then go back down. This can be very tough for a novice to realize. Performance oriented kayaks will have lower primary stability and higher secondary stability. While they seem unstable at first they are actually very stable and will out perform a "stable" kayak in poor conditions.

Again, this can be tough to get a feel for without spending quite a bit of time paddling. You should be able to talk to the salesperson about it though. If they are on the level they should be able to help you make a good decision.

So far, I've narrowed the field down to the Eddyline Fathom LV (15' 6" long, 47 lbs. Carbonlite), and the Necky Eliza Composite (15 ' 3" long, 40 lbs.).

I obviously haven't paddled those...in fact I've never gotten in to any Necky boat that I fit in. That should be a good sign for you.

I'd love to hear from other petite paddlers, especially women like Carmel if possible, what their thoughts are on choosing a kayak, as I think their experiences will be more like mine due to being similar sizes. Sorry, Darren, but I'm having a hard time picturing you and I choosing the same boat based on our vastly different heights, upper body strength, etc.

Actually Carmel is 5'7" (or 6 1/2" or 7 1/2"... I can't remember which way the 1/2" is supposed to go), so there will actually be plenty of boats that you can fit in that she can not.

One boat like that is the P&H Vela:

http://www.phseakayaks.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=9

It is supposed to be an awesome kayak for someone your size. My guide friend Sam(antha) always raved about it.

Here is a review from the Atlantic Kayak Guides (in DC):

"The Vela is for 90-150 lb paddler. Best for beginners between 90-110 lb; otherwise better for intermediate paddlers. The hull is a shallow arc hull shape; flared hard chine. The Vela is quick and fun to paddle. The new seat is lower than previous models, so lack of depth at thigh hooks should not be the problem it has been for some. For the smaller paddler who has decent skills or plan to develop them, the Vela should be paddled before making a new boat decision. The performance boat for the smaller paddler. Will appeal to kayakers that fit Impex Mystic, Wilderness Systems Tchaika, NDK Romany LV but the Vela carries it's speed better, is set up for expeditions and allows the smaller paddler to keep up with the full size boats. Does not have a compass recess."

I know a guide there. They know there stuff.


Carmel paddles the Impex Mystic:

http://www.impexkayak.com/mystic.html

It is a great boat. She is about max height for it, so it might still be a good boat for you. It is a bit of a drive for you, but you can go down and try it out anytime.

JayH has the same boat. But that would be a longer drive...


Last advice is to try to buy your first boat used. Demo new boats, then try to find what you like used. A used glass boat can save you $1500 easy. Check out North Shore Paddlers Network and RICKA online classifieds (yah, a drive for you, but the drive might be worth saving $1500).

Good luck.

- darren

 

[Jay H]

Yup, I have the Mystic, a fiberglass one that weighs in at 43lbs... I am 5'4" and 135lbs and it's great, it's actually a little big in the cockpit area, I could actually use some small paddling on it but that and the Vela are two kayaks that I looked at when I was buying, but the Vela was considerably more than the Mystic although it is a tad shy of 16' and better in the rougher seas.

Another kayak you might want to look at is the new Impex Force 3, which fit me even better than the Mystic. I sat in one at the ADK paddlefest and was impressed and Daxs has one but she would even be farther than me from you since she is in the very south of NJ.

Anyway, the last time I checked prices, prices have really gotten high due to the rising cost of gas, it seems the Vela is now upwards of $2800 which 2 years ago, I think when I was looking they were more like $2400. I got my Mystic for $1800 so that was my concern there...

Happy Hunting!

Jay

 

[Roxi]

Thank you!

Darren and JayH,

Thank you SO MUCH for your excellent advice and info! I hadn't thought about how the feel of the boat will change as I gain more experience. Good point!

I checked out the links you provided. The Vela looks very similar to the Eddyline Fathom LV, but is a few inches longer and a few pounds heavier, and sounds more expensive (The Fathom LV is $2500).

Regarding day hatches: are they a big advantage? I'm thinking less weight is probably worth more to me than a third hatch.

The Impex Mystic's 43 lb. weight is very appealing. JayH, you and I are very similar height/weight. I appreciate your info on how the cockpit feels to you. The Fathom LV has a keyhole entry cockpit, and I definitely felt like my hips were "wearing" the boat. I will make a point of checking out the Impex Force 3 before deciding.

You guys are the best! Thank you!

 

[adkayaker]

Can't say enough about Impex quality.

For a bit more speed and seaworthiness, might suggest the Impex Montauk.

 

[Roxi]

Update

I looked online at Impex kayaks. At 56 lbs. the Force 3 is out of my weight requirement of less than 50 lbs. But there's an Impex dealer in Tamworth NH, so I'm going to check out the Mystic and Montauk. Thanks all!

 

[daxs]

Daxs here. I am 5'3 and I have the Impex Force 3. I am very comfortable in the kayak. I paddle mainly in the intercoastal waterway and the inlets of the south jersey shore. Lots of chop, wind and currents but I do not feel tippy in the kayak. I tried out alot of different kayaks at the Mountain Man demo days in the ADK's last year before deciding on the Force 3. (could not afford kevlar so decided on glass) I can easily get it on and off my car (an Audi) with the rack I have. If I had an SUV or truck it would probably be alot more difficult and i would need one of those racks with rollers. Also, I do not have the J racks with make you lift the boat into the rack. I probably would not be able to portage the boat any long distance but for short distances I am OK. Oh yeah, I ALWAYS have guys at the put ins offer to help me load and unload the kayak. I will be in the ADKs in sept doing some hiking and kayaking but I think thats still pretty far for you to come and try out the boat.

 

[bobandgeri]

Roxi -

As Darron mentioned - demo several boats before buying. The following website lists many dealers by state so you can see what boats they carry.

http://www.seakayakingusa.com/dealers.htm

There are so many differant boats out there that it can be mind boggling. Every boat will fit and respond differantly. And for the best fit you will want to pad it out anyways so it doesn't have to fit perfect off the shelf. Finding the perfect boat wil take time, and if this is your first boat, you can pretty much be sure it will not be your last boat. After you do some paddling and figure out what you like, the type of boat you want will change. Take a road trip and check out a couple differant large dealers that will let you try out a variety of boats.

Day hatches - personal choice which will somewhat depend on what you are going to do on your paddles - going to be away from shore and need to get to a gps - want to be able to grab a snack or a camera - neither Geri or I have them, but our next boats will!

The clubs that Darron mentioned are great resources. NSPN is a very active clube with a bulletin board similar to VFTT. Go over there and post a question - you are likely to get many replies.

If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest taking an all day class/tour - but be carefull - you may want to move to the seacoast!

Catch up to us on a hike sometime and we can talk for hours on boats and great places to kayak!

 

[Jay H]

Some people find day hatches to be a pain to get to when out on the water... Realize that you can get deck bags and underdeck bags and you can store stuff in small drybags behind the seat if you need to... Or on your PFD if you want.. Some sprayskirts even have small mesh pockets for waterproof things.

Jay

 

[deanmacg]

The Impex Currituck is a great do it all boat but weighs 55lbs. Worth a test paddle if you can.

 

[Roxi]

Jay H, I think you're right about the accessibility regarding the day hatch while out on the water. I found it less than convenient to try to open it, and the salesperson had said the same thing. I view it as an optional feature, but not a requirement for me. I also have stored some things in the closeable pockets of my PFD as I was afraid if the boat capsized, I'd lose them and not be able to find them again (like keys). On a separate note, I really like my PFD, everything snaps together and adjusts just like my backpack.

Bob & Geri, Thank you so much for the link! I'm having lots of fun looking through it and will make a point of stopping into the place in Concord when I'm down that way later this month. I like your advice of taking an all day class/tour. As for moving to the seacoast, that was my second choice when I made the move up here. It wouldn't surprise me if I end up there someday. I would LOVE to hike with you two again, and have no doubt we could talk for hours about almost anything. Loved meeting both of you and talking on Jefferson that day!

Daxs, I truly do appreciate your feedback about the Impex Force 3. Thank you! I have no doubt it's a wonderful boat. But the weight is a real issue for me. A friend of mine lent me his 14 ft. Perception Carolina which weighs 55 lbs. without the rudder and his has the rudder, so I'm guessing its 57-58 lbs.? I couldn't get it TO my car (Honda CRV), nevermind ON my car. Up here in the Whites, I can't always count on someone else being there to be available to assist me. I HAVE to be able to move and lift this boat entirely by myself. If I can't, there's no point in my buying it.

I enjoyed the fit and feel of the 14 ft.(?) Impex Mystic that I tried today and REALLY liked the ease with which I could lift its 43 lbs.! It's on sale for $2100. The Eddyline Merlin LT's Carbonlite weight of 42 lbs. is equally appealing, as is its slightly shorter length of 13.5 ft., and lower price of $2K, but the cockpit feels "looser" around my hips than the Impex Mystic, perhaps too loose. The 15.5 ft. Eddyline Fathom LV Carbonlite fits like a glove! I truly feel like I'm wearing it. I lifted its 47 lbs. and while its certainly doable, I don't want to lift anything heavier. The difference between 42 and 47 lbs. felt significant! I really think I'm making the right decision for ME in limiting the boat's weight to no more than 50 lbs. If I felt comfortable lifting 55 lbs. or so, I'd probably get a polyethelene boat for my first one as they're significantly cheaper $ and may be easier to find used.

I like Darren's advice of looking for a used boat first, but doubt I'm going to find a Fathom LV as they're pretty new. I can't seem to find a Necky Eliza Composite anywhere, nevermind try one, perhaps because they're a 2008 model and haven't made it to the stores yet? The regular Necky Eliza's are also scarce, and I was told by one saleperson today that the reason they don't have/carry them is because they're "women specific." So? Don't we make up 50% of the population? Ok, so maybe we don't make up 50% of the people buying kayaks, but I'd rather buy from a place that carries some women specific gear than a place that chooses not to. I hate it when a outdoor sports store makes women's stuff seem less important. Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now...

Anyway MANY THANKS to each of you for your great advice and helpful information! I truly appreciate the time you each took to respond to my questions and point me in the right direction. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

[Jay H]

Although I know you've said the 50lb weight limit, you might also want to consider a NDK Romany LV, it's 54lbs but the Romany is a very proven design and I think the Quality Control issues with the older NDKs are history.. it's worth a looksee anyway if you can find a NDK dealer near you.

There are ways to load kayaks onto racks that you can't lift. Do not be afraid to ask the salesperson on how to properly lift, how to properly portage/carry the kayak and how to load the kayak onto a roof rack by yourself... A lot of people shop looking at the kayak, but getting to the water and not throwing out your back is pretty important too!

What I've done with portaging my kayak, my Impex is light enough for me to clean and jerk but let's assume it's not. I kneel down with the kayak facing bow forward with my primary arm (I'm right handed). I take the cockpit with both hands and get the kayak on my knee, then with the right arm and my left arm to balance the kayak I lift the cockpit rim to the point that the cockpit is on my shoulder, using my left arm to balance/brace the kayak. Then I simply balance the kayak on my shoulder while sliding my right arm up to hold the kayak level, using my left arm when needed. Sometimes if I have a long portage, I'll use my bilge sponge on my shoulder to cushion the kayak. Using this method, the hardest part is perhaps using the arm to lift the kayak to the shoulder.. Once on the shoulder, you are using your legs and body as you should be. Even the arm lift, you can try to use your legs as much as possible.

I love my Mystic, I love the skeg versus the rudder. Since I presume you are a backpacker (this is a hiking website ya know), you should be able to go for 7 days easily even with the small 14' Impex and perhaps further if you don't need to pack water.

The one nice thing with dayhatches, is they make good ice chests!

Jay

 

[Roxi]

I love my Mystic, I love the skeg versus the rudder.

Me too!! I like that both the Mystic and the Fathom LV have one. Necky's Eliza Composite does too. Very cool feature!

Since I presume you are a backpacker (this is a hiking website ya know), you should be able to go for 7 days easily even with the small 14' Impex and perhaps further if you don't need to pack water.

I'm one of those really odd hikers who would rather do a 22+ mile day hike than have to camp. I like a warm shower and bed at the end of the day. I had enough of camping during the 9 weeks I bicycled across the country decades ago. Now if I can paddle from one bed & breakfast to another, I can put together a 7 day itinerary, maybe even longer!

The one nice thing with dayhatches, is they make good ice chests!

I like that reason!!! Thanks, Jay!

 

[KayakDan]

You have tons of good information here! The array of boats is mind boggling,and the boats get better all the time. The suggestion of a Romany LV is a good one,and it is available in Carbon Fibre if your so inclined. last time I priced an Explorer in CF it was $3800.No thanks!
Also consider the Boreal Design boats. The Ellesmere,a favorite of many(my wife included) is 44lbs in Kevlar. It's a fast,stable boat,with excellent quality. Boreal has also built a number of new,smaller glass boats
Boreal Designs

And here's a link to a review of just about every kayak ever built!
Paddling.net reviews

And while you're spending your paddling dollars,invest in a good lightweight paddle,like a Lendal,Eddyline Swift etc. Spend more than seems reasonable,as it will make a big difference by the end of a day of paddling.
Good Luck,and happy paddling!

 

[darren]

Yes, skegs rule. (ok, my opinion)

One thing to note about the difference between a 42 lb 13.5' boat vs. a 47 lb 15.5' boat is that while it is only 4 lbs more the extra 2' adds a lot of torque. It acts like a bigger lever and weight over distance is tough to control while carrying. So while it might not seem like a big jump from a 43lb 14' boat to a 50lb (or 55lb) 17' boat, it is a very big difference when you have to carry it. You are smart to stick to your weight limit.

Day hatches - I am not a fan. Tough to get at on the water and they reduce the size of the main hatches. I like two full size hatches when loading up for a multiday trip and also when loading up heavy for a single day trip (go to a beach with food, a small grill, beverages...)

Tough to pass up on a Mystic on sale. Although I have to say that it is crazy that they are on sale for $2100 now. I bought one brand new for $1400 only about 5 years ago. 50% increase - that is nuts. Jay - I don't think the price of gas has much to do with an increase that big.

Make sure you check out craigslist.org for all the NE states for the models you like. But, since you are looking at good boats people will probably sell those through the club classifieds.

- darren

 

[Roxi]

You are smart to stick to your weight limit.

Thank you!

Make sure you check out craigslist.org for all the NE states for the models you like. But, since you are looking at good boats people will probably sell those through the club classifieds. -

Will do. THANKS, Darren!

And many thanks to Kayak Dan for the link to the reviews! I had fun reading some of them. The Eddyline Fathom LV and Merlin LT both got 9/10 and 10/10 in their reviews. I also learned why the Merlin LT felt "loose" on me as it also fit a guy who's 6' tall and 180 lbs. although he did say that he was at the upper limit for the boat.

The Impex Mystic had 2 great reviews and 1 mixed.

The Necky Eliza got panned by an experienced kayaker - good to know!

You have all been so helpful. Thank you! I bought the book Quiet Water for NH and VT and have been scoping out where I want to paddle to gain some experience. Lake Tarleton between Warren and Piermont looks good. Anyone have any opinions on that lake? Or suggestions for others (please remember I'm new at this, although Echo Lake at the base of Cannon felt way too small the day I did a rental on it).

 

[Jay H]

Jay - I don't think the price of gas has much to do with an increase that big.

I talked to the guy who owns a paddling shop on the Hudson in NY and he told me that gas prices is one of the factors with the increase in costs for the mfgrs... I know Impex is an Asheville, NC operation (Mid-Canada Fiberglass for canada).. I'm sure it's a factor for a lot of the niche mfgrs who isn't Perception and need to transport supplies to their factory..

Heck, kayaking has become popular too.

Jay

 

[darren]

Heck, kayaking has become popular too.

Jay

Yah, that is what I don't understand. It is suppossed to be supply and demand. Yes, demand has gone way up, but supply has gone way up too. 10 or 12 years ago when you went kayak shopping there wasn't a ton to choose from. Now there are more boats than you could ever keep track of (no pun intended).

Even if gas went up 50% in 6 years, it certainly doesn't account for 100% of the cost of making a kayak (which is the only way it would count for the 50% increase in the price of the yak).

I think that 10 years ago the only people buying glass kayaks were people who were seriously into kayaking. Now it seems to be a huge fad and there are a lot of people with disposable income who think it is just cool to have a kayak rack on their BMW mini-SUV. The cash is there so the prices go up.

ok - off soap box.

Roxi - did you buy the Mystic yet?

- darren

 

[Roxi]

Now it seems to be a huge fad and there are a lot of people with disposable income who think it is just cool to have a kayak rack on their BMW mini-SUV. The cash is there so the prices go up.

ok - off soap box.

Roxi - did you buy the Mystic yet?

- darren

No, I'm still trying to decide which kayak rack will look best on my '98 CRV.

 

[peakbagger]

BTW, An opportunity to paddle some beautiful boats is coming up

"The Newfound Rendezvous

Will be held September 8th, 2007, Saturday from 8 am to 6 pm

at Wellington State Park, Bristol, NH

Bring your cedar strip boat and join us for a good time! "

A lot of the regions boat designers used to show up with demo boats (I havent been for a few years so I dont know its still that way. Just show up with a lifejacket and a paddle if you have one. I expect that if you want to ask, there will be plenty of folks who will tell you why skegs are unneccessary.

Nick Schade the designer of a lot of guillemot kayaks is fairly small frame, I had to modify the patterns to fit me.

Of course once you have tried a strip built, it will be hard to go back to plastic.

BTW, I have a 19'6" strip kayak that weighs right about 50 pounds and I carry it on my civic.