Nutrition question for long day-hike.

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Bananas replace potassium lost through sweat. They have long been a favorite of cyclists because them come in a bio-degradable wrapper ;) I think the key on the longer endurance events is to bring a variety of things you will like and nibble often so you never approach "The Bonk". I did Old Speck and Baldpate (15 miles, 6K feet) a few weeks ago and definitely got close to Bonking - starting to cramp up from electrolyte loss. I like the (unfried) Elvis Presley - peanut butter, banana and fluff - and you don't have to keep it cold.

"More of the same" is always a good philosophy - don't experiment on a trip like this.

Tim
 
Before my friend & I attempted a Bonds Traverse, we ate four full sized bagels each. While it felt AWFUL for the first hour, but then we had great energy for many hours after that. I don't think we became hungry again until like mile 13 or 14. You could also try eating a full box of pasta for breakfast.

Disclaimer: Your body might hate you for this.
 
Kevin Rooney said:
What's the worse that could happen? You're a bit hungry at the end?
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I'm pretty sure I could eat nothing all day and still complete the hike.
Rik said:
I have a couple of thoughts.
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This is news. I hope you can get treatment.

Rik said:
If you deplete your blood sugar and rely only on fat you will be able to keep going but you will get really slow and feel really tired.

I think caffeine has more benefits than negatives. It delays fatigue.
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Fat burns in a carbohydrate flame. The sensation of tired muscles is supposedly related to lowered levels of sugar. The general sensation of fatigue is related to an amino acid (isovaline?) crossing the blood-brain barrier. The amino acid would be floating around as a result of muscle breakdown due to depleted sugar levels. The body burns protein for fuel.

Unless there has been new research to the contrary I learned that caffeine increases muscles' ability to uptake and burn fat.

bikehikeskifish said:
"More of the same" is always a good philosophy - don't experiment on a trip like this.
Tim
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You wouldn't recommend trying brand new boots and a totally different diet? :D


I often eat a can of smoked oysters on hikes, especially in winter. Carrying a ziplock for the oily can is a good idea. I usually just chuck the can into the woods.
 
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Not to 'dis Tim on the value of bananas for potassium, but ... for some (including me) eating bananas seems to draw mosquitos in droves, so I never eat them within a day or two of a hike.

However, I love it when one of my hiking companions pulls one out at the trailhead and chows down. I position myself about 100' away, knowing every mosquito in the area will soon swarm, and they won't bother me!

And, as far a coffee being an extreme diuretic - from what I've read in the past couple of years this seems to be one of those urban legends, along with the need to drink X liters of water every day lest you fall over dead sideways when you least expect it. Research seems to indicate that while caffeine is a mild diuretic, it doesn't force water out of your cells. We pee (mostly) when we have excess fluid in our systems. If you drink a liter or two of fluid just before a hike, you're going to pee alot during the next hour or two, regardless of the amount of caffeine it contained.
 
Not that I'm an expert on hiking...but, hubby and I like 13 milers (not very long compared to some, I know)

Anyway, we usually pack the typical: Cliff bars and some of those Met Rx bars (the BIG, meal replacement ones...YUMMY!!!)...we do Pop Tarts (ok...so they get a big squished...but they're really good too!)...cheese/meat sticks...snickers (for each new 4000 we hit)...for lunch, we stop at a local Cumberland Farms and grab one of the already made, packaged sandwiches they have...throw it in the bag and eat for lunch. Be careful of those with mayo, though, on warm days...what we do is put ICE in the water bottle we keep in the backpack and put the sandwich near it...no problems with this...yet.
 
Neil said:
Comments anyone?
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Have fun. Eat what you like. I'd stay away from the olive oil.

Personally I'd go heavy on the carbs to help burn body fat, which I have lots of. Burning body fat only works for me if I go slow. Which is my only speed unless I falling down hill. If my aerobic lever is high I need to burn starches and sugars.

Salty snacks, peanut butter or cheese cracker packets. Fruit breakfast bars. Dried fruit, especially dried bannanas. Fig Nutions, fruit cake. Chocolate covered peanuts and dark chocolate bars.

I like cheese, crackers, sardenes, sussage, hummus, pita bread, oasters, dried guppies, olives, bagles and peanut butter just because I like them. River treats are great.

Strong black, very sweet, coffee in a 16 bottle. A bottle of Coke is nice too. Coolaid &or gater aid powder in a zip loc for a qt.

Any or all of the above.
 
Reading through all the responses I think the key question I'm wondering about is to what extent can you rely on burning your own body fat to fuel a hike.

Does anyone know how effective manipulating the system is through training, nutrition, drugs (caffeine is still a drug isn't it?) and pace setting in skewing the fat:carb fuel ratio towards fat?

I'm pretty sure I read something in Chasing the Antelope by Bernd Heinrich about migrating birds and insects and fat for fuel. (I lent the book to a friend runner and never got it back.)
 
Neil said:
I'm pretty sure I read something in Chasing the Antelope by Bernd Heinrich about migrating birds and insects and fat for fuel. (I lent the book to a friend runner and never got it back.)
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You could always just eat suet. Cheap, oftentimes has berries in it and probably tons of calories. Comes packed perfect for hiking.

-Dr. Wu
 
Neil said:
Reading through all the responses I think the key question I'm wondering about is to what extent can you rely on burning your own body fat to fuel a hike.
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The olive oil swigs or flaxseed oil swigs manipulates the body to burn more fat since it gets signals that more fat is on the way in.

I like to try to see how many miles you can hike in either of these scenarios - basically you hike until you pass out:

* No water, food, drugs or any intake is allowed

* Just water is allowed

* Any beverages are allowed including powdered drinks like Emergen-C

* Food and beverages are allowed but only what you can carry in your pack from the start.

You should have medical assistance with IV stuff with you on a hike like this though......doing it on a 400 meter track might be a good controlled environment.....
 
Mats Roing said:
The olive oil swigs or flaxseed oil swigs manipulates the body to burn more fat since it gets signals that more fat is on the way in.

I like to try to see how many miles you can hike in either of these scenarios - basically you hike until you pass out:

* No water, food, drugs or any intake is allowed

* Just water is allowed

* Any beverages are allowed including powdered drinks like Emergen-C

* Food and beverages are allowed but only what you can carry in your pack from the start.

You should have medical assistance with IV stuff with you on a hike like this though......doing it on a 400 meter track might be a good controlled environment.....
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let us know the outcome!
 
Neil said:
Does anyone know how effective manipulating the system is through training, nutrition, drugs (caffeine is still a drug isn't it?) and pace setting in skewing the fat:carb fuel ratio towards fat?
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I have read that you can increase your fat-burning capability by doing lots of long-slow-distance (LSD) training.

Doug
 
DougPaul said:
I have read that you can increase your fat-burning capability by doing lots of long-slow-distance (LSD) training.

Doug
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Very clever, Doug...

A side benefit of this method is you never really care where you've been or where you're going, because not matter what, you've already been there.
 
The % of fuel from various sources depends on the metabolic process. Aerobic metabolism can burn fat, while anaerobic cannot. Roughly speaking the fat burning zone, (aka LSD as Doug correctly calls it), is in the 70-90% range of your lactate threshold (which varies based on activity). In most activities which make use of your legs, this works out to be 60-80% of your maximum heart rate. Training to improve your efficiency really trains you to operate at a higher target heart rate by moving your lactate threshold up. I've also seen charts which say that at time zero, you start out using a 90/10 carb/fat burning ratio and over time that trends towards 10/90 - i.e., the longer you go, the greater the % of fat is utilized as an energy source.

The trade-off is going hard enough to maximize the fat burning opportunity without going so far as to overdo it.

When I was racing bicycles and training,

* My lactate threshold cycling was around 165 and it would move 5-8 points over the course of the racing season (90% max)
* My lactate threshold for skate skiing (XC) was around 178 (96% max - more muscles are recruited)
* My maximum heart rate was around 185.

HTH,
Tim
 
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