One saw one hiker

[WinterWarlock]

I wish we could do this! I don't know about NH, but in NY it's against the law

Can anyone confirm - is this correct?

 

[WinterWarlock]

in the ADKs ... as long as you're wearing your snowshoes, everything is cool and the gang

And your dog is leashed, don't forget.

 

[adktyler]

Can anyone confirm - is this correct?

Scott, I just had a very long discussion with some trail maintainers via private messages. I'll send you a PM to sum up what they said, but essentially don't bring a saw. You can clear off what you can move with your hands, but leave the folding saw at home!

 

[--M.]

What I referring to is the clearing of small blowdowns that fall into the trail, referring to that as "cutting of the forest" is a bit of a stretch.

P.S - I have no idea what the cognoscenti have to say about the issue - perhaps they will speak to the matter at some point.

Sometimes, it's an easy and apparent job. Other times, it takes judgment and prudence. Standing deadwood is different from live trees, and safety is only one consideration.

In the Santanoni example last year, the cutter thought he was doing the community a favor, and even bragged about his work, until someone gave him the news. An eager heart does not qualify someone to cut.

Also, if I were a trail adopter and had scheduled some maintenance for a weekend, I might not like seeing it already done, and not as I would have done it.

Having proprietary feelings toward the forest makes me uncomfortable, but I guess I do wanna stake a claim and protect my favorite trails from over-zealous "maintenance" that turns a quiet tertiary trail into a super-highway.

I heartily endorse the good work done by the committed and don't want to overplay the card. Thanks for the commentary.

"Cognoscenti."

 

[Fisher Cat]

Also, if I were a trail adopter and had scheduled some maintenance for a weekend, I might not like seeing it already done, and not as I would have done it.

Not that it bothers me personally, if someone does some incidental work as they hike, no prob, I think its mighty decent of them to do so. You have my thanks. I also know there are plenty of maintainers who, as they have been hiking on a trail not their own adoption, who do so, and again no prob. But if you drive 8 hours and have taken vacation days to do your work...well, then you are either thankful for the free time, or it frees up some time for more detailed work.

I certainly don't think ( and I'm not sayin' any here feel this way ) that there is an elitism between those who Adopt and take the course and those who don't. Trail Adopters are just hikers who have taken a leap.

 

[Tim Seaver]

In the Santanoni example last year, the cutter thought he was doing the community a favor, and even bragged about his work, until someone gave him the news. An eager heart does not qualify someone to cut.

Also, if I were a trail adopter and had scheduled some maintenance for a weekend, I might not like seeing it already done, and not as I would have done it.

If I understand properly, the issue at Santanoni was that it was an old trail that was re-opened without permission, on private land. That's a pretty far cry from what this thread is encouraging, the simple removal (with the possible assistance of a small saw) of blowdown that is lying in the trail, something I think most people are "qualified" enough to do.

I don't typically carry a saw, but I remove a lot of small trees and feel that I am making the trail safer and faster for others to pass. In my view, the safety value of having the existing trail free and clear of hazards far outweighs any considerations about how a maintainer might feel about having people do simple obstacle removal.

 

[ColdRiverRun]

In the Santanoni example last year, the cutter thought he was doing the community a favor, and even bragged about his work, until someone gave him the news. An eager heart does not qualify someone to cut.

If I understand properly, the issue at Santanoni was that it was an old trail that was re-opened without permission, on private land. That's a pretty far cry from what this thread is encouraging, the simple removal (with the possible assistance of a small saw) of blowdown that is lying in the trail, something I think most people are "qualified" enough to do.

I don't know if you two are referring to the same event. It sounds like --M is referring to the guy who blazed the trees on the way to Couchie if I'm right. If so I don't believe that was last year.

As far as the ADK is concerned in general the concern is over herdpath maintenance. The idea is for them to be lightly maintained and provide almost a closed in natural feel. They do not want them to look like lowland bike trails through local parks.

 

[--M.]

I don't know if you two are referring to the same event. It sounds like --M is referring to the guy who blazed the trees on the way to Couchie if I'm right. If so I don't believe that was last year.

As far as the ADK is concerned in general the concern is over herdpath maintenance. The idea is for them to be lightly maintained and provide almost a closed in natural feel. They do not want them to look like lowland bike trails through local parks.

I am indeed referring to the Couchie "blazing" thing; I could look it up, but it's easy to find. An apparently misguided hiker cut what he thought were improved blazes on quite a few trees. I can't believe this has already been forgotten, given the heat and smoke it generated at the time. edit: http://vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13737&highlight=Couchsachraga ; August, 2006.

What of this theory of keeping minimalist paths in a primitive condition? Should all trails be brushed out to accommodate the hypothetical 4'x8' board? Are there cuts possible that are undesirable? Is it possible to screw up a water-bar despite good intentions?

I'm just rather surprised at how eagerly it's being recommended that hikers take on trail maintenance without an acknowledgment that it's possible to go too far. I can't possibly believe that this is a radical notion or that I'm imagining something remote and unlikely.

I agree that my point has an elitist smell, which I also find objectionable. Doesn't make it elitist in fact, or take away from its value.

Now, turn from the Twinway to the Zeacliff Trail and descend. Upon bottoming out, notice how primitive it is compared to the eight-lane comfort of the Twinway. Now add Harlan Williams with a 36" Stihl and a good punchline.

That's all.

 

[TDawg]

Now, turn from the Twinway to the Zeacliff Trail and descend. Upon bottoming out, notice how primitive it is compared to the eight-lane comfort of the Twinway. Now add Harlan Williams with a 36" Stihl and a good punchline.

Nice point about Zeacliff trail I love the ferns through there. Wouldn't be hard for that to end up very un-primitive in the wrong hands.

 

[TCD]

I know there's lot's of disagreement on this. Here's my take.

A herd path (ie, path by use, as opposed to a marked trail), should probably be allowed to have a "path by use" look. But if the stuff that's in the way of the existing path is such a problem that users create multiple additional paths to get around it, perhaps it should be cut to encourage a single path. That kind of decision takes some judgment and experience.

A marked trail should be able to be walked without climbing over stuff. This has nothing to do with felling standing trees, whether dead or alive. But the width of the existing trailbed should be clear, up to a height where things don't hit you in the face as you walk. If you want a "wilderness feel," or you want to fantasize that the area is untraveled, feel free to walk along 50' to the right or left of the trail; there will be plenty of stuff to step over there.

TCD

 

[Trail Bandit]

It does my heart good to know that people are out hiking the trails, doing their part. If you do bring along a saw to "help", keep in mind the width of the original trail. There is no need for a highway. Brush shouldn't hang in your face, but if you cut it, cut branches next to the tree trunk, and cut small stuff as close to the ground as possible. The stubs that some people leave are unsightly, and I hate tripping over them. Sometimes I am blamed for the work of others, so do a nice job. I like the Corona 7" folding saw. ( About $20 from Forestry Suppliers, buy a spare blade).

 

[Tim Seaver]

ADK Mud Makes for the Slipperiest Of Slopes

I am indeed referring to the Couchie "blazing" thing; I could look it up, but it's easy to find. An apparently misguided hiker cut what he thought were improved blazes on quite a few trees.

.....Now, turn from the Twinway to the Zeacliff Trail and descend. Upon bottoming out, notice how primitive it is compared to the eight-lane comfort of the Twinway. Now add Harlan Williams with a 36" Stihl and a good punchline.

I am not sure what blazing or chainsaws have to do with the OP.

There will always be a handful of people who go too far, but I don't think threads like this are going to encourage anything of the sort. It just a simple request to help keep the trail clear. Common sense applies if you have it.

 

[WinterWarlock]

Common sense applies if you have it.

Unfortunately I suspect that most who don't have it, don't realize it.

 

[Jason Berard]

We are talking about dragging blowdowns off the trail, or using a small pruning saw. Not a chainsaw. Having carried a saw up trails to cut blowdowns, with proper USFS certification, of course, I doubt folks are going to be taking to the trails with their chainsaws. They're kinda heavy, especially if you bring bar oil, gas, chaps, hard hat, gloves, tools, wedges, etc.

On the trails that I maintain, I have had people let me know they have done minor blowdown removal, and I was grateful to have the help. I have only had one blowdown removed that I didn't want touched, as it fell in such a way as to make a great waterbar. But it was other "official" trail maintainers that cleared it...no big deal.

That said, when I was going to hike a trail this winter that I had heard had several blowdowns, I contacted the Maintainer, who is a member here, to see if he would appreciate me clearing the trees on his trail. He was also grateful for the help (and that I asked). It turned out I didn't use that trail, so I didn't really help, but I digress.

Someone also mentioned earlier feeling uneasy about anyone having a proprietary feeling over the woods/trails. I would say most trail adopters do have a proprietary connection to "their" trails. Its called stewardship, and the more people involved with that, the better.

 

[Jason Berard]

I should add that I think the folks that have expressed concern so far have valid points, and have expressed them well.

As another example, a favorite trail of mine that was once a very lightly used trail, with no blazing, waterbars, etc. has recently become a more "improved" trail , and to me, that is definitely not an improvement!

 

[Fisher Cat]

as it fell in such a way as to make a great waterbar.

Wow, you would have been one lucky guy! How often is that gonna happen? Please tell me you would have at least had to drag it into position, if it had fallen in place, all the more amazing! Trail Adopters dream come true.

 

[Tobit]

Trailwrights Crew is fun too ... lots of good people in that group that have been working on trails for over 30 years

Yes, please come out on June 6th and help us clean up ice storm damage on Mt. Sunapee (and vicinity). </shameless_plug>

 

[--M.]

Common sense applies if you have it.

Agreed, and I'm satisfied in having gotten my little cautionary "whoa" out there. It's turned out to be a bigger 'button' issue for me than I thought, so it's been fun restraining myself.

Even on my own property, "Play it as it lies" is in constant tension with the urge to remake every step for perfect passage. I think "Play it as it lies" needs a voice.

And thanks again to all who give of themselves for the benefit of others. And for the positive feedback. I'll be taking my kids to the Edmands Path next month so they can see what trail-building is. We'll be sure not to rearrange the stone-work any.

The chainsaw thing was a joke. Harlan Williams is a favorite of mine, since many years ago on the Conan show. He does a good bit with fake chain-saw sounds.

Now, if I may complete my transition to crotchedy old man..., Be careful out there!

--M.

edit: I meant... "Hey, it's a great weekend out there! If you happen to see a blowdown blocking the way and can fix it, then thanks!"