Opening new and "lost" abandoned trails

[RGF1]

I have read more than one post about a lot or abandoned trail to a cool place. I am wondering if it is possible to reopen and maintain these trails or with legit authority clear and maintain a lost trail. I know some cannot be re opened due top wilderness policy. Some could be and maybe this idea could reduce traffic on popular tails. I know the politics of making a new trail is tough,. Harder than getting a logging permit of fly fishing guiding permit. But It sure would be nice to open some places up to take the pressure off popular sites and it would be even better if we could find a way to have sites that cost less than the AMC sites and be better with room for more and less impact on the environment. Just a thought, and I would be willing ot help out with my skill and equipment.
How would a group do this and keep the dreaded AMC OUT!!!

 

[Sherpa John]

I like the idea myself but I wonder if a new kind of outdoor club Like... RMC or something would need to be formed first and legitimized by the USFS as pertaining to mainting a trail and keeping AMC out..such and such

 

[RGF1]

John , I think you have a good point. I am thinking that a group maybe even from VVFT could get to gather and do this. As a legit organization, and possibly do more than the AMC. Or even run it’s backcountry sites as they prefer to run a high end resort in Crawford Notch and have peole pay 1k for trips in the Whites when I pay 1,500 or less to hike out west for 2 weeks AMC! And stay at nice places in Aspen , Telluride or Jackson WY .
I would love to have a trail and back country site organization that is not interested in selling stuff for LL Bean and paying $160,000 USD to it's board of directors each! Bet 100k+ would do allot for a few trails!
This is what I am talking about I know it means work but we all benift rom trail work, plus it is a great work out Just think if we could say ok you work on trail X we supply a tent/room , food and beer for few days that would be great and get a good amount to clear and work on trails plus ge help hire a few care takers who could charge a lower fee to use sites han the AMC that make a profit ! On hiking and backcountry sites wrong wrong wrong AMC ! AKA Appalachian Money Collectors

 

[stopher]

Sounds like a great idea. But I suggest that you hook up with an established trail maintenance club (other than AMC, if you wish) and get some experience first. There are plenty of hard working, no-frills clubs in the Whites and elsewhere that could use the help and provide you with valuable training. After a few years with one of them, then you could jump into forming a "lost trails resurection club" with eyes wide open.

 

[RGF1]

My problem is I used to work on a trail crew as a young guy in his 20s’ i know all about building waterbars , stone steps etc. i drop hazardous trees as part of my living . I use a Chainsaw almost every day except when I am, not working or doing business on my PC such as today. I am very familiar with the RMC I would love to do some work on a trail or two . I spend at least one weekend a month at Crag Camp if I am not hiking out west or working I cut cordwood also. I use a Bobcat to haul the logs so I do not make a big mess. I just want to help. I would happily work with the RMC If they will let me clear with a Chainsaw on trails and stay at stay the perch or Crag for free I can haul my own food I would love help. Maybe I am in over my head I just want to get something going to set up a site a or take over high priced AMC sites and minimize impact. I have good intentions. If an RMC person can PM please feel free. I can clear most any RMC Trails with my saws in short order as they are high end Pro saws Stihl MS 460s and 660s with 20 and 34 inch bars .I drop 150 + ft white pine at least once a week and climb the damn trees and am very skilled. All I ask is a few nights at Crag or the like. Hell if some one else joins in a few cold beers would be nice but .I know it is a start . But we need more than the Appalachian Money Collectors in the WMNF operating tent site shelters and clearing trails! I just want to help out and give back.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

There have been many past threads on this board about abandoned trails in the Whites. Some of these closed trails have been posted by the USFS with threats of $1000's in fines should you be caught "re-opening" (i.e., maintaining) them. Ironically, some of these closed trails are now being illegally maintained better than the USFS and the AMC is maintaining many of their open trails. The USFS refuses to take the time and effort to involve volunteer adopters for their trails and the AMC does not keep very good track of the performance by their volunteer adopters. The DOC, RMC, and WOC seem to do a better job with their more limited trail systems. The AMC does send their small professional crew through all of their trails in the late spring to remove blown down trees.

So, it seems to me a logical approach for those interested in volunteering to maintain trails would be simply to carry a pair of hedge cutters or even a small pair of snippers with you while hiking on officially open trails and do some brushing (called "standardizing" by the pro's) whenever you stop for a rest. The only real rule is to snip off the branches close to the trunk so that you do leave long, sharp, pointed protrusions to impale hikers. Standardizing also is defined in such a way that one can hike a trail with a 4 ft x 8 ft sheet of plywood carried upright on a packboard without obstruction by branches. Some times it makes more sense to remove an entire sapling encroaching on a trail rather than snipping most of its branches. One can also carry a small fold-up pruning saw to remove trees that blow down after the professional crews have completed their work in the spring. Finally, cleaning water bars of debris is an important process that needs to be done to prevent trail erosion throughout the hiking season, but especially in the fall and spring; a heavy-duty pulaski works better than lighter-weight hoes for this chore.

I think that "vigilante trail maintenance" is probably the only way that we will save our White Mountain trails from becoming completely overgrown, which is happening faster than ever with global warming and the lack of funding for trail maintenance. As noted in other threads on this board, most of the USFS parking fees (Fee Demo) go into office supplies and equipment, new vehicles for enforcement, and upgrading trail head facilities, rather than trail work.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Whoops, that should have been

"The only real rule is to snip off the branches close to the trunk so that you do NOT leave long, sharp, pointed protrusions to impale hikers."

 

[onestep]

Standardizing also is defined in such a way that one can hike a trail with a 4 ft x 8 ft sheet of plywood carried upright on a packboard without obstruction by branches.

I'd settle for just being able to keep my umbrella open "without obstruction"

 

[mountainfrank]

Granted there are some great lost trails but others were abandonned for reasons (erosion, property lines, etc.).

One should certainly check on that before putting the effort into reopening a lost trail.

 

[HikerBob]

Just an observation and a question...

Observation:-
Post 1: "keep the dreaded AMC OUT!!!"
Post 2: "wrong wrong wrong AMC ! AKA Appalachian Money Collectors"
Post 3: "high priced AMC sites"
Post 4: "The AMC has money for buying land to make a new resort and charge a mint"

Question:-
RGF1 - do you buy black marker pens in bulk?

My first and last word on the matter.

Bob

 

[RGF1]

Just an observation and a question...

Observation:-
Post 1: "keep the dreaded AMC OUT!!!"
Post 2: "wrong wrong wrong AMC ! AKA Appalachian Money Collectors"
Post 3: "high priced AMC sites"
Post 4: "The AMC has money for buying land to make a new resort and charge a mint"

Question:-
RGF1 - do you buy black marker pens in bulk?

My first and last word on the matter.

Bob

Have to laugh Bob. I know what you are referring to. But very funny.! No I do not agree with that either. If I want to criticize the AMC I will do it publicly. I know I am not alone in my growing dislike of the AMC . Also they did catch the guy I thought he was a AT hiker all he did was give the Thru hikers a very very small black eye. Defacing a sign does not help, making Wise A#$ remarks or comments is just letting out a bit of frustration with the AMC I was a member and wrote more than one letter experssing my coencers about the direction the orgnization is going in. I never even received a reply from any one in the AMC . It would be a very long post to explain my animosity
towards the AMC . I am happy to do so in private and see if it is something that could be posted and discussed so long as one does not flame. Using a few wise A#$ terms for the AMC and comments with out resorting ot profanity or name calling is one thing attacking some one is another. I would never personally attack any one regardless of their opinion.
BTW I like your hiking on "Bob Time" in another thread.

 

[BrentD22]

I'm curious...

I would amagine that most trails that have been abandoned have good reasons for why they where abandoned. There are plenty of reasons of why, but I would seriously doubt a reason of "just because". If there is something you wish to visit that an abandoned trail used to go to feel free to bushwalk down that abandoned trail, but reopening abandoned trails could cause hikers to get lost. During trail work when we got to a abandoned trail site we where sure to obstruct the old trail with some type of brush so no one got lost.

There are a lot of used trails in disrepair that could use an adopter or a crew of people to repair a washed out section.

Now there are some trails that have been closed do to overuse of a fragile area with plans of reopening in the future. I'm sure after time the plans are forgotten. Maybe a trail like that could use some motivated hikers to help get it back open.

 

[RGF1]

I hope people do not think I am advocating renegade trail making or opening . My thoughts were of doing it legitmatly and with all the right permission. or working on trails that do not get alot of maintaince but need it. I feel as if I am being attacked for even suggesting it . we all enjoy the trails and some are over used soworking on them and or diverting people to a few intersting places is in my humble opinion a worthy goal .
Last Summer I spent a week out in CO both doing trail work that was badly needed , hiking and meeting people from all over we worked on La Plata peak hardening a few eroded places and stated work on the Climbing route to Pryamid Peak .
There are many more trails here that could really benift from some serious work and even having a few old routes the Hawthorn Falls being one I think is a good idea as it makes a different way to hike Garfield so that the Garfiled trail is not as busy .
But I do know money and "politics " do go into alot of descions on our national forests.
Sorry if it seems I am harsh with the AMC but the AMC is not above reporach or criticism . People might do well to ask why there is increasing hostilty towards he AMC .

 

[darren]

Moderators note:

I deleted some political comments in RGF1's original post. There is a strict no politics rule on this site. Those references broke the rules. Instead of deleting the entire thread, I deleted these comments out of the post and deleted the posts the refer to these comments. I sent a PM to RGF1 explaining the edit.

I strongly DO NOT like editing other people's posts. I do not like to change what other people said. I would much rather delete everything someone says rather than edit their words. Since there were already 12 replies here, I chose to edit the original post and tell all of you what I did rather than delete all the other info that has been posted in this thread. Again, this is not my preferred form of moderation, but I feel that it was better than deleting everything in this case.

I hope you all understand why I took this action. While I can edit the text in any post in these forums I strongly dislike using that power. I only resorted to doing it as a "last resort".

- darren

 

[forestgnome]

Darren,

Thanks for this forum