OR set to pass Beacon Bill

[Snowflea]

On NPR's Morning Edition today:

"Oregon is about to pass legislation requiring climbers to carry electronic-locator devices when scaling Mt. Hood. The legislation is the state's response to recent high-profile cases of climbers getting lost on the mountain."

Audio here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7770277

 

[Rik]

Sounds like more "reactive legislation". Usually makes politicians look like they are doing something good. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the law was being named after one of the victims.
So much for the "freedom of the hills".

 

[the starchild]

i think requiring all climbers to pass a test or take a class would be a much better idea (think katadin in winter.) if the conditions are too bad for rescue a beacon, it is pretty useless, but knowledge and training would still be very valuable. i can't listen to the audio here at work, but in all the discussion of the law, was education ever suggested or debated?

 

[giggy]

whats about the 10,000's thant have gone up with no problems - what about the sisters, mt jefferson, mt washington, etc.. - case could be made those are tougher than hood.

lame! joke nuts

 

[Bob]

i think requiring all climbers to pass a test or take a class would be a much better idea (think katadin in winter.)

Pulleease- no more red tape! And green $$.
A few years back they were trying to limit summit permits to keep it 'a wilderness experience' (it's not- with chair lifts and a ski area developed on it)
And I don't remember ever taking a test or class to climb Katahdin in winter...

 

[cbcbd]

It's one mountain... Unless I'm peakbagging or utterly bored with the plethora of mountains in the world I'd just go somewhere else.

At least I hope local outfits will rent PLBs.

 

[giggy]

It's one mountain... Unless I'm peakbagging or utterly bored with the plethora of mountains in the world I'd just go somewhere else.

At least I hope local outfits will rent PLBs.

yea true - but its on everyone's tick list becuase - well its mt hood.

my prediction: won't be enforced.

 

[Jay H]

my prediction: won't be enforced.

Perhaps, but there is now another way for Oregon to fine people.

Jay

 

[onestep]

Hike free or Die!

Onestep
MMM

 

[SAR-EMT40]

if the conditions are too bad for rescue a beacon, it is pretty useless, but knowledge and training would still be very valuable.

How can you say that! If the weather is too bad for a rescue they will still know exactly where those people are dying. That in and of itself is priceless.

Typical knee/jerk moronic reactions from politician who know nothing about the subject they are legislating about. Information and training should be all that is needed. We are not losing enough people to require such a ridiculous action. I get so sick and tired of being legislated by people who know nothing about my sports and who insist on trying to protect me from me.

Keith

 

[Puck]

Typical knee/jerk moronic reactions from politician who know nothing about the subject they are legislating about.

Keith

Who makes these devises? I smell a hot stock tip.

 

[TomD]

Check out Jim Whittaker's op-ed piece in the NYT. He's against beacons on the grounds that they will just encourage the underprepared and result in unneccesary rescues and risk to rescuers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/09/opinion/09whittaker.html

NYT links usually last about a week for free.

 

[giggy]

excellant article

Tom - thanks for that link - what an excellant article.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

Check out Jim Whittaker's op-ed piece in the NYT. He's against beacons on the grounds that they will just encourage the underprepared and result in unneccesary rescues and risk to rescuers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/09/opinion/09whittaker.html

NYT links usually last about a week for free.

Yep, thanks for the article. Worth reading.

This type of behavior has been shown over and over again. You widen a road to decrease traffic accidents and the number of fatalities goes up because the speed that vehicles travel is directly related to the road width. Several studies have shown this. Speeds are reportedly increased because of airbags and seatbelts. This has nothing to do with cars by the way. It is with all risk. I have read (not sure there are actually studies, but it seems logical) that people take more risks in the mountains because of cell phones. Does anyone doubt this on an anecdotal level even without a proper study? Whenever you provide or worse yet force someone to have a safety net that only makes the least capable increase the risk they are willing to try.

Equipment can help people that know what they are doing. In the hands of the inexperienced it is more likely to have them take a risk that they otherwise would not. I have no direct proof of that, but I don’t doubt it. The number of rescues they conduct will go up and the reasons for the rescues will be more improperly equipped and inexperienced people will be attempting riskier climbs because they know that rescue is a buttons push away. This, by the way, is another lie. The number of deaths may still go up because not everyone can be rescued if there are technical or weather related reasons that a rescue cannot be launched for a day, or days, or even weeks.

Again, the politicians have done a considerable disservice to their constituents the climbers and the SAR community and anyone who goes into the backcountry to get away from such foolishness.

Just my $.02,

Keith

 

[the starchild]

How can you say that! If the weather is too bad for a rescue they will still know exactly where those people are dying. That in and of itself is priceless.

Keith

what i meant was if someone was up there stuck/dying/trapped in a brutal storm, unable to be rescued...what is more important; the gear and knowledge to survive until help comes, or a working beacon that pinpoints the location of a dead body?

i totally agree with your next post and ironically, that was the conversation at lunch yesterday. we kinda compared the beacon to having a cel phone in the whites; in the hands of someone (not all!) who will take chances or have a false sense of security because of the electronics.

i guess my whole point was, if there's gonna be some laws, try to prevent the accident in the first place, rather than make the rescue easier, or as we both agree, the increasing amount of rescues easier.

bob: as far as katahdin, maybe i am wrong, maybe you took the post wrong. i thought after the ski in, the group had to meet with a ranger at the cabin, who would talk with the group to be sure they are prepared for the hike and meet the requirements ie: group of four, spending the night at the cabin, etc..

http://home.earthlink.net/~ellozy/baxter97.html - thx Sam Jamke and Mohamed Ellozy

http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/camping/win_procedures.html

that's what i thought would be a better preventive measure for hood than just carrying a beacon.....if something must be done. IF something must be done. i hate red tape too. but if there is going to be some, might as well try to be as effective as possible.
so, katahdin, did you just go climb it? you didn't have to chat with a ranger or anything?

 

[Bob]

bob: as far as katahdin, maybe i am wrong, maybe you took the post wrong. i thought after the ski in, the group had to meet with a ranger etc..

You're totally right, I took it out of context as meaning some sort of 'formal' scheduled classes.
I think the 'training' can only be learned through actual experience, not learned in a classroom or from a book; unfortunately getting the experience can have unexpected consequences. I'm sure the climbers who climbed the North side could've passed any sort of test, they gambled on the weather and lost.

 

[pudgy_groundhog]

I have read (not sure there are actually studies, but it seems logical) that people take more risks in the mountains because of cell phones. Does anyone doubt this on an anecdotal level even without a proper study? Whenever you provide or worse yet force someone to have a safety net that only makes the least capable increase the risk they are willing to try.

It's been awhile, but I remember seeing a news segment about this in Colorado. About how people will go into the woods without proper gear, but have a cell phone and think that is all they need.

I wholeheartedly agree with what people have been posting ... these beacons, while useful, are no substitute for knowledge or being prepared. I'm also irked at politicians reactively legislating something that they have limited knowledge about. But it really doesn't surprise me. There is another non-outdoors message board that I frequent and you wouldn't believe the things being said about the Mt. Hood rescues and mountaineers in general.