Ouray Ice Park

[shadowcat]

Has anyone been here?
http://www.ourayicepark.com/history.php
This looks like a blast. The thing that really caught my eye was how they got to use the land this gorge is on: it's privately owned and the owner didn't care if folks ice climbed in the gorge but was worried about liability insurance. in order to get around the astronomical costs that he could neve afford for liability insurance he formed "a unique land-use arrangement with the County of Ouray whereas they insured Eric and Ouray Hydroelectric under its insurance umbrella and Eric in turn leased to the county the use of the land for recreational purposes for $1.00 a year until 2008. This was the critical ingredient for laying the foundation of the Ice."
how cool is that? maybe some of these private owners around here who worry about liability issues and hikers etc on their land can gleen some ideas from this proposition.
in any case - what a fun little playground! if anyone has ever been there i'd like to know how it is. i don't really ice climb - just took one class, but i loved it and i know i'd be good at it and have a blast!

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Don't quote me, but I think a private landowner in New York State cannot be held liable as long as he/she doesn't charge for access (assuming, of course, there is no blatant neglegence such as hidden bear traps along a trail).

 

[shadowcat]

liability

it crossed my mind to toss that out there since in the last yr there has been a few discussions on land owners or new owners stopping access across their property to trailheads. i wouldn't doubt liability does become an issue. a hiker has the ok to cross your property, falls over say some brush hidden under the snow, breaks something or whatever and the next thing you know some lawyer is on the line. i could come up on your house porch, uninvited, heck to rob you - slip and fall and sue you! it's happened. from what i read, the ouray ice park is entirely paid for by donations, volunteer work and the annual ice festival. there is no charge, i don't believe to use the park. it just seemed like such a novel, yet reasonable idea of how people and local government can work together when they both have good heads on their shoulders.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

"i could come up on your house porch, uninvited, heck to rob you - slip and fall and sue you"

True, but that's because you're supposed to maintain sidewalks and the access to your house. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe:

If you cut across the lawn and twist your ankle on a small divot caused by your lawnmower, you can't sue (well, you can, but you won't win). If, however, you cut across the lawn and fall down an open well concealed by snow, you can sue, because that's negligent.

If I'm wrong, let me know. There are a couple of properties near here that'd I'd like to hike. I'll just have to trespass and fall... then it'll be mine... ALL MINE

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Ha! I actually found it, called the General Obligation Rule (or Law?):

TITLE 1
CONDITIONS ON REAL PROPERTY
9-103. No duty to keep premises safe for certain
uses; responsibility for acts of such
users.

S 9-103. No duty to keep premises safe for certain uses;
responsibility for acts of such users. 1. Except as provided in
subdivision two,
a. an owner, lessee or occupant of premises, whether or not posted
as provided in section 11-2111 of the environmental conservation law,
owes no duty to keep the premises safe for entry or use by others for
hunting, fishing, organized gleaning as defined in section
seventy-one-y of the agriculture and markets law, canoeing, boating,
trapping, hiking, cross-country skiing, tobogganing, sledding,
speleological activities, horseback riding, bicycle riding, hang
gliding, motorized vehicle operation for recreational purposes,
snowmobile operation, cutting or gathering of wood for non-commercial
purposes or training of dogs, or to give warning of any hazardous
condition or use of or structure or activity on such premises to
persons entering for such purposes;
b. an owner, lessee or occupant of premises who gives permission to
another to pursue any such activities upon such premises does not
thereby (1) extend any assurance that the premises are safe for such
purpose, or (2) constitute the person to whom permission is granted
an invitee to whom a duty of care is owed, or (3) assume
responsibility for or incur liability for any injury to person or
property caused by any act of persons to whom the permission is
granted.
c. an owner, lessee or occupant of a farm, as defined in section
six hundred seventy-one of the labor law, whether or not posted as
provided in section 11-2111 of the environmental conservation law,
owes no duty to keep such farm safe for entry or use by a person who
enters or remains in or upon such farm without consent or privilege,
or to give warning of any hazardous condition or use of or structure
or activity on such farm to persons so entering or remaining. This
shall not be interpreted, or construed, as a limit on liability for
acts of gross negligence in addition to those other acts referred to
in subdivision two of this section.
2. This section does not limit the liability which would otherwise
exist
a. for willful or malicious failure to guard, or to warn against, a
dangerous condition, use, structure or activity; or
b. for injury suffered in any case where permission to pursue any
of the activities enumerated in this section was granted for a
consideration other than the consideration, if any, paid to said
landowner by the state or federal government, or permission to train
dogs was granted for a consideration other than that provided for in
section 11-0925 of the environmental conservation law; or
c. for injury caused, by acts of persons to whom permission to
pursue any of the activities enumerated in this section was granted,
to other persons as to whom the person granting permission, or the
owner, lessee or occupant of the premises, owed a duty to keep the
premises safe or to warn of danger.
3. Nothing in this section creates a duty of care or ground of
liability for injury to person or property.

 

[shadowcat]

"There are a couple of properties near here that'd I'd like to hike. I'll just have to trespass and fall... then it'll be mine... ALL MINE"

not bad, kind of like sexual harrasment in the work place - if you don't sexually harrass me, can i sue you for discrimination?

but like i said, my main point was i thought that park looked like fun. i wish we had something like that here don't you? i'm not sure if very many people even know there is ice climbing around here; well not the average joe anyway.
and the way the land owner worked it out was cool too.

 

[AMF]

The ouray ice park truly is unique... I was planning to go there last winter, but 2 kids in college kind of put a crimp in the budget. There are some excellent values to be had in riverfront cabins when staying there. Course, we have all kinds of natural ice in the ADKs!

On another subject, I believe you had posted a question a while back about a cave with a skylite somewhere near Albany, which got me to do some digging (mental, not physical). I believe the one that was referred to was Bentleys Cavern, some 5 or 6 miles south of Petersburg in the Taconics. It has two entrances, both opening into a large room that could display the conditions described when the light is right.

 

[mediclimber]

The ice park is really good. I've been there three times and had a great time every time. The whole area is an ice climbers paradise. If you want to see it without traveling there, get Jeff Lowes ice climbing video. A lot of it was shot in the ice park with Bird Lew as a student.

 

[shadowcat]

AMF & mediclimber - thanx!

amf: thanx for the info on the so called "glitter room". sounds like a pretty cool place to see.

amf & mediclimber: are both of you experienced ice climbers? or were you planning on going there and learning? just curious. altho i don't see myself getting into high altitude mountaineering where i'd have to use ice skills; i did have a blast climbing up frozen water in the daks last winter. i only took a beginner class but i wasn't at all afraid and had so much fun. i "hope" to get to do it a bit this winter but i know i can't afford to pay a "guide" to take me out every time. maybe another class but then if i have any hopes of doing some ice climbing at all i'm going to have to find some people who are at or near my level to practice with. (in the hopes of getting a chance to go again i bought a pr of salomon pro ice boots. they were on sale for 80 less a credit memo i had of 30 so i got them for $50! they have some insulation in them so i'm hoping i will get the opportunity to use them ice climbing. just couldn't pass up the bargain tho. are you guys familiar with them? ) i know there's some great climbing in the daks, catskills and over in vermont. do you know of any "groups" or others who are beginners?
oh and where can i get this video? maybe the library? does hollywood have it?

 

[Jasonst]

Never been to the park, but if it's anything like the town of Ouray, then it is awesome. I have visited there twice and it's an amazing place! Can't wait to go back!

 

[mediclimber]

I've been ice climbing since before there was Specta. I really liked the trip I took to the Canadian Rockies about ten years ago. We did all the big name routes to include Wicked Wanda and Hydrophobia. I've alo done some high altitude stuff, but am not interested in suffering well anymore. I hit the Daks at least once a season and get lots of ice here in PA on weekends when I'm off. Being a paramedic and a medical specialist on a FEMA Task Force takes up a lot of time. The Ouray Victoran Lodge is a great place to stay there and they give climbers a discount. They also have an anual ice festival where all the big name climbers show up and teah you how to really scare the jeepers out of yourself.