Planning an above-treeline hike Saturday 11/28? Be careful...

[DrewKnight]

Reposting from the Mt Washington Observatory Higher Summits forecast (http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/summit_forecast.php):

...This will make for an extremely dangerous situation on the higher summits tomorrow. It should be noted that wind chills will approach 20 below at times, which can result in frostbite on exposed skin in as little as 30 minutes. Blowing snow and thick fog will produce periodic white-out conditions, which can easily lead to disorientation. DO NOT attempt a hike above tree line on the higher summits unless thoroughly prepared for heavy riming conditions, blizzard conditions, winds regularly gusting over 110 mph, temperatures in the teens, and plenty of blowing snow.

I know you all know this stuff, but just in case...

In the mean time, I get all tingly when I see that MattL has posted a weather update. About time!

 

[Mattl]

Good information to know. I just know someone will hike in the Whites this weekend and have no idea there was supposed to be snow, not on this board of course

-Mattl

 

[TDawg]

...This will make for an extremely dangerous situation on the higher summits tomorrow. It should be noted that wind chills will approach 20 below at times, which can result in frostbite on exposed skin in as little as 30 minutes. Blowing snow and thick fog will produce periodic white-out conditions, which can easily lead to disorientation. DO NOT attempt a hike above tree line on the higher summits unless thoroughly prepared for heavy riming conditions, blizzard conditions, winds regularly gusting over 110 mph, temperatures in the teens, and plenty of blowing snow.

Jeeeez.

Realistically, is there any way to be "thoroughly prepared" for weather like that? I mean, 110+ wind will knock you down, right?

 

[Neil]

Better show this to Dr. Wu. He will certainly want to bring extra alcohol on his Presi traverse.

 

[DougPaul]

Jeeeez.

Realistically, is there any way to be "thoroughly prepared" for weather like that?

Learn to crawl with rocks in your pockets and pack. Bring kneepads.

I mean, 110+ wind will knock you down, right?

Might lift you up too...

Doug

 

[Maddy]

Or you could do this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrbD9NWkp7E&NR=1

 

[dr_wu002]

Better show this to Dr. Wu. He will certainly want to bring extra alcohol on his Presi traverse.

Gotta stay warm somehow.

Supposedly you can even pour beer on your hands to relieve frostbite symptoms.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Ridgewalker]

Sounds like superb kite flying weather, perhaps I should take along a titanium hang glider as well!

 

[DougPaul]

Supposedly you can even pour beer on your hands to relieve frostbite symptoms.

Bad supposition.

Alcohol-water solutions freeze at temps lower than 32F, so pouring cold beer on your hands can cause frostbite. (FWIW, alcohol used to be used as an automotive antifreeze.)

People have been known to die of a frozen larynx by drinking whiskey that has been out in sub-freezing cold.

Doug

 

[w7xman]

Well...predictions seem to be right on...it just gusted to 137 on the summit...sustained at 108mph! That'll get your attention!

Winds are forecast to peak between 7 and 10am by my rough analysis this morning...

 

[Neil]

Bad supposition.

Alcohol-water solutions freeze at temps lower than 32F, so pouring cold beer on your hands can cause frostbite. (FWIW, alcohol used to be used as an automotive antifreeze.)

People have been known to die of a frozen larynx by drinking whiskey that has been out in sub-freezing cold.

Doug

When camping in Manitoba our whiskey would often freeze solid. By putting it near the morning fire a pool of liquid would quickly form at the top. Drinking this straight off put hair on one's chin but luckily nothing untoward ever occurred. (I have heard of people sipping white gas in similar temps and having a hard time with that. It is not something I would recommended in any temperatures.)

 

[DougPaul]

When camping in Manitoba our whiskey would often freeze solid. By putting it near the morning fire a pool of liquid would quickly form at the top. Drinking this straight off put hair on one's chin but luckily nothing untoward ever occurred.

Just looked the freezing points up:
24 proof: 20F (-7C)
64 proof: -10F (-23C)
84 proof: -30F (-34 C)
pure ethanol: -173F (-114C)
Ref: http://cocktails.about.com/od/mixology/f/alcohol_freeze.htm

The liquid on top would likely tend toward pure ethanol...

(I have heard of people sipping white gas in similar temps and having a hard time with that. It is not something I would recommended in any temperatures.)

Gasoline freezes ~-70F. Just spilling it on your skin can result in a flash freeze (frostbite). Bare skin can also freeze to gasoline bottles. And, of course, gas is poisonous at any temp.

Doug

 

[dr_wu002]

Gasoline freezes ~-70F. Just spilling it on your skin can result in a flash freeze (frostbite). Bare skin can also freeze to gasoline bottles. And, of course, gas is poisonous at any temp.

Doug

Oh shoot. Usually when I run out of booze and the liquor stores are all closed (or won't sell to me anymore) I just visit the local gas station and fill a few whiskey flasks up with gasoline. I know in regular weather you shouldn't drink gas but when it gets cold my body seems to process gasoline much better. I'll definitely be careful when it gets super cold though.

87 Octane is cheapest.

-Dr. Wu

 

[--M.]

... I have heard of people sipping white gas in similar temps and having a hard time with that. It is not something I would recommended in any temperatures....

Under what rationale would a person, even a crazy one, sip white gas?

--Open-Minded & Curious, not Suicidal

 

[--M.]

Well...predictions seem to be right on...it just gusted to 137 on the summit...sustained at 108mph! That'll get your attention!

Winds are forecast to peak between 7 and 10am by my rough analysis this morning...

Hey!

Any of you highly-qualified, well-trained, "experienced" types planning on actually going up into that? Stories, please!

--M.

 

[Robs]

I was hoping to do Washington on Sunday... If the conditions are still too bad, what is a good backup mountain to climb? I'm not worried about the cold as much as the visibility; I can deal with freezing conditions and I have the equipment, it's the possibility of navigating in a white out that bothers me...

 

[DougPaul]

Under what rationale would a person, even a crazy one, sip white gas?

--Open-Minded & Curious, not Suicidal

It has happened by accident.

One scenario is that one uses water and gas bottles that are not clearly distinguishable by feel and needs a drink in the middle of the night...

Sigg used to advertise its aluminum bottles for both drinking water and fuel. They are currently advertising their aluminum bottles for drinking water only, but the bottles are very similar to MSR fuel bottles.

Some ULW hikers use soda bottles for (denatured=poisonous) alcohol stove fuel.

Doug

 

[--M.]

I was hoping to do Washington on Sunday... If the conditions are still too bad, what is a good backup mountain to climb? I'm not worried about the cold as much as the visibility; I can deal with freezing conditions and I have the equipment, it's the possibility of navigating in a white out that bothers me...

Perhaps you'd enjoy Garfield, Zeacliff or Willey-&-Friends. Or maybe Pierce, or Jackson, or the Wildcats. Or the Carters, or Hancocks, or Carrigain. They all have protected approaches.

Might not like Webster Cliff....

 

[DrewKnight]

Realistically, is there any way to be "thoroughly prepared" for weather like that? I mean, 110+ wind will knock you down, right?

Good point. Today's Higher Summits forecast seemed to reconsider the "thoroughly prepared" point a bit, too:

Again, venturing above tree line today will be extremely dangerous, even if you are fully prepared. The force of these type of winds on the human body is exceptionally taxing and should not be underestimated, not to mention the effects of the cold.

Bring yer ballast and allow extra time for tacking into the breeze.

 

[sardog1]

It has happened by accident.

One scenario is that one uses water and gas bottles that are not clearly distinguishable by feel and needs a drink in the middle of the night...

Sigg used to advertise its aluminum bottles for both drinking water and fuel. They are currently advertising their aluminum bottles for drinking water only, but the bottles are very similar to MSR fuel bottles.

Some ULW hikers use soda bottles for (denatured=poisonous) alcohol stove fuel.

Doug

Some greybeards still have red Sigg fuel bottles purchased in the previous millennium. Some of "them" still harbor resentments toward Sigg for ever selling red bottles for beverages afterward. (Another advantage of always going solo -- I never have to worry about a GenX-er or other young'un mistaking the contents of my fuel bottle . . . )