Poll: Posting bushwhack conditions

[cushetunk]

Posting bushwhack conditions

Sorry to steal Spencer's idea, but I thought a poll would be informative.

Personally, I stopped posting trail reports of most bushwhacks or obscure hikes after reading Wilderness Ethics by the Watermans.

I think posting reports can change things, for sure. I just read about a 'whack in Maine that I never, ever would have thought of doing. Now, it's on my "to do" list.

Sometimes I wonder if our trail conditions page should be just that: trail conditions. What do others think? Do we get enough useful information to justify reports of bushwhacks?

edit: I'm thinking specifically of "Trail Conditions" as opposed to the Trip Reports forum.

 

[onestep]

I think posting reports can change things, for sure. I just read about a 'whack in Maine that I never, ever would have thought of doing. Now, it's on my "to do" list.

I know what you mean! In the late '70's a buddy & I 'whacked from the summit of Mt Abraham (in Maine) over to the AT. Damn'd if there isn't an official blue blazed trail there now

I'm certainly guilty of posting bushwhacks on "Trail Conditions". I try to post helpful info but in a general way, ie "I approached from the NNW... mostly open woods untill the broad summit ridge".

 

[Neil]

Keeping the wild in the wilderness.

Balance in all things is the key. If I'm thinking of bushwhacking to a particular destination I want the adventure "à la Waterman" so I'm going to examine the map and try and figure my own way there. OTOH if someone I know is familiar with the area I'm then going to ask for his or her opinion. This is now so easy with software and the internet and I think it's great. If they say that my proposed route is choked with horrendous blowdown but they know a way that is nice open hardwoods most of the way then I'm happy to get the advice.

Advertising to the WWW a nice gem of a spot is touchy isn't it? You want to say, "Oh man, look what I found!" But then it might be ruined, because of you.

GPS tracklogs for true bushwhacks should only be shared amongst a few friends IMO. Mine are personal souvenirs. I love downloading them and going, "Oh, so that's where I was".

Like I say, the fun and adventure is in making one's own route. If it turns out to be a "bad" route it dosn't matter cuz it's yours.

Edit: I can see I strayed from the initial question. I wouldn't dream of posting a 'shwack in the trail conditions page simply cuz there aint no trail to report on!

 

[Gamehiker]

I appreciate helpful info but in a general way. Not everyone that bushwhacks will take the exact same route. On some peaks the route might be obvious but on others there will be different routes. Cupsuptic Snow is a good example of that. I am slowly working on the 3k's in Maine. I know there are supposed to be 165 of them but I have chosen not to get a "list". Part of the challenge for me is to actually find these peaks on a map. If I get stuck on 164 then I'll ask. LOL

 

[Tom Rankin]

Whacking can be good or bad. There are several trailless peaks in the Catskills. Some have developed a confusing network of paths. Is it better to have tons of small herd paths, or 1 well laid out, marked, maintained trail? Hard to say...

 

[Stan]

I answered "sometimes" with the opinion that sharing knowledge is good ... no one has to follow it or even read it. However, the response is to conditions, not a route. The posting of routes is another issue and that question has been posed and answered about specific hikes many times. It is a fair question or poll as to how much route information need be shared and for what group of bushwhacks.

 

[funkyfreddy]

good questions

I'm pretty free with most information but there are some places I would never post directions to for fear of seeing them destroyed. I have no problems telling other VFTT hikers about them in person, just advise discretion when discussing certain places online......

 

[dms]

As far as ME 3k's are concerned, other than the NE 100 HH peaks, most visits are 2 to 3 years apart, posting info on such peaks is not going to change the frequency of visits to any great extent, or cause the peak to become overused. The only paths you'll find on these peaks are animal created, old skidder paths, or old overgrown woods roads.

 

[Neil]

As far as ME 3k's are concerned, other than the NE 100 HH peaks, most visits are 2 to 3 years apart, posting info on such peaks is not going to change the frequency of visits to any great extent, or cause the peak to become overused. The only paths you'll find on these peaks are animal created, old skidder paths, or old overgrown woods roads.

That sounds like my idea of heaven. I'll get there before too long. Maine, that is. Err, ahem, unh, you wouldn't happen to have a tracklog or 2 wouldja?

 

[dms]

ME wackin

Neil, ME is a wackers heaven. Virtually no issues with difficult landowners, lots of nice old lumber roads to explore. I do have all the necessary USGS maps filled with cryptic notes that I am happy to share, not quite as accurate as tracklogs, but they'll still get you to where you want to go. Don't want to totally eliminate the chance of human error, then there would be no good stories to tell your friends!

 

[cushetunk]

Re: Conditions vs. Locations

I guess I should have been more specific.

My thinking was that when reporting bushwhacking trips, stating the conditions often involve revealing a route. Sometimes simply saying, "we climbed Mount Nowhere and it was awesome!" can be quite telling.

I sense that many of us, myself certainly included, post trail conditons not only to help others, but also to say proudly (and rightly so): Look what I have done!

So... is it worth it for some bushwhacks? Is the impact substantial?

 

[forestgnome]

I've posted vague discriptions of conditions of a general area, for instance, the western slopes of a particular mountain. My idea of bushwacking seems to be different than that of most. The forest is the destination, rather than a summit. I often spend a whole day exploring a ravine or a ridge. I don't think anyone gives a rat's arse about my bushwacks, anyway, so I don't bother.

As for trail conditions, I'll report them in winter and spring for the benefit of others, but I seldom check them for myself because I prefer to not know.

Happy Trails!

 

[spider solo]

winter bushwhacks

I wonder if the subject can be further broken down to summer or winter postings of bushwhack conditions.
Since we have some snow on the ground I have started up with some bushwhacking for the season.
I read the trail conditions frequently in the winter and will post on some of the conditions I find from storm to storm.
I also will sometimes post if I think people might be lead astray following my tracks or if they lead to dead ends or just ramble about to nowhere in particular.
I think the impact to winter bushwhacks is far more minimal and I like the security of being able to physically retrace my steps if need be or to avoid places where I bogged down and try a variation on the route.

Interesting for me that when new trails are established through the woods animals are often the 1st to use them. The Internation Appalachian Trail was a good example...you could often literally follow their foot prints for a mile or two at a time. Just as we might follow a game trail they will also follow the trails we make...

 

[Double Bow]

I'll sometimes post a bushwhack in the Trip Reports section (never in Trail Conditions) but, I don't make them too specific. I know when I'm setting out to do a whack, I appreciate helpful tips. Since I don't use a GPS, I pretty much just look at the map and figure what I think would be the best way to do it. Sometimes I get it right, other times I don't.

Still, I appreciate being able to read what others have done and find out if an approach is really nasty and if there is a "better way" to do it. If reading something from someone who's ben there saves me from going through a wet area or super thick spruce, I'm in favor of it. I don't want a bearing or anything, just general information.

 

[Pig Pen]

Don't get your nighties in a knot . If someone posts a trip to Boil Mountain, somehow I don't think it will be overrun with tourists.

 

[dms]

What a combo!

If you are going Boil, don't forget Onion Hill!! The summit views are very sprucey!!

 

[mavs00]

I'm a Depends guy ........... Oh wait that doesn't sound too good. Or at least I have been in the past.

I'll be honest, I'm kinda a passionate, visceral kinda guy that tends to not always think things through clearly before doing them, so there have been times in the past that I've done a particular hike or visited some obscure place and felt compelled to share it (and have done so) within the confines of a public forum like vftt, which I consider part of my hiking family. I never post route details or anything specific (but regularly share them back-channel among friends). Even so, Once i think it all the way through I usually come to regret the initial posting and feel guilty for it.

Over the past year or two, I've vowed to stop sharing so much though (and have). But for a guy like me, it's not always as easy as it sounds. If anything now, its a picture here and there perhaps, but not really anything specific. Not that it'll make much of a difference, because like forestnome, I'm not really sure that in the great scheme of things anyone gives a "rats arse" where ole Mavs00 is off to.

As an aside, I share not so much out of a "look at me" mentality, but it's more of a mix between pride, a generally sharing/giving mindset and a believe that most others on here would enjoy the story that goes along with the trip. I owe a great deal of gratitude to the "collective knowledge base" of VFTT and sometimes the only way I feel I can repay it is to share something special, or special place with the group (within reason and without roadmapping to it).

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I'm not really sure that in the great scheme of things anyone gives a "rats arse" where ole Mavs00 is off to.

No, not in that sense, but just remember that things are being archived and cataloged. Each time, a little bit is being added. In 10-20 years from now there will be a HUGE collection. It will be too late to take it back.

Intelligent indexing engines are being created.

Don't just think of today. Think of the future. And time is running non-linearly these days.

-Pete... a guy who has over 20 years of his life captured by google.

 

[forestgnome]

Mavs00, that's very well said; nice post!

 

[RoySwkr]

I voted for "sometimes" also

In line with the spirit of the Watermans, one should not post information that is likely to lead to serious environmental degradation

In kindness to Darren who is paying for the bandwidth, don't use Trail Conditions for bragging about your latest ascent unless you have useful information about your route and don't post info on a route that is likely to interest nobody

But if a bushwhack route is likely to be followed by others, why not indicate if there is more deadfall that usual? With winter routes, they may be able to follow in your actual footsteps and by doing so will probably have less erosive impact than a lot of people hiking the same route in summer.