Presidential Traverse beta needed for Aug 4th ish

[Legwound]

Hello to all.

I'm hoping to shortcut lengthy thread searches and post my specific questions.

My wife and I are planning to do the traverse around Aug 4th or so, starting from the north and heading south.

I'll be parking at Pinkham and looking for a ride to the start and pick up from the finish. What is the typical, or best start point so I can direct our ride/taxi/shuttle as to where we'd like to go?



We'll be doing a leisurely pace. I figure on 3 days, two nights.

We're likley going to go hut to hut to save the weight of a tent, bring our own food and cook gear.

Do we need to book spaces in the huts?


I understand water is available at the huts, plan on a 2 liter bladder for myself, 1.8 for my 125LB wife. I'm considering bringing a spare bladded in case of a tragedy like a leak or hot weather. I also understand there are a number of springs alomng the traverse. Are the GPS co-ords of those springs available?


As far as filtration/treatment goes, am I better to bring my Katadynne or drops?

I'm inclined to bring my Katadyne just so I can pump in rather than pull the bladders out of the packs.


I'd also welcome any links to or suggestions for do's and don'ts for this outing. I'm looking forward to the views and exercise but would like to make it lesirurely rather than epic.

thanks all

Mike

 

[David Metsky]

It's probably easier to park at Crawford and have the shuttle take you to Appalachia to start your hike. That way you have a car waiting for you at the end and only have to coordinate once, when you're fresh and thinking straight. Nothing like coming off the trail straight to your car.

You MUST book space in the huts, or they will likely be full and have no room for you. Do so now they fill up very early. The dates you can get will determine when you can go. Weekdays are much easier than weekends; Lakes of the Clouds and Madison are extremely popular huts.

You won't need to fill water between the huts, they're only 7 miles apart. If you're going over Washington you can fill up again at the summit but that's less than 2 miles from Lakes. There is a spring in Edmands Col and one along side of Clay if you desperately need water. I wouldn't carry a pump, you're very unlikely to need to fill up between the huts.

Weather (and hut reservations, call now!) will determine your days. If the weather is really bad you'll want to skip the summits and take Westside around Washington. In event of bad lightning get down below treeline, don't play games up there. Bring more warm/dry/weatherproof clothes than you think, it can be quite cold up there even in August.

 

[teleskier]

My wife and I did the same trip last August and I would basically second everything Dave said. We stayed at Madison Spring the first night, Lakes the second, and yes, their availability on relatively short notice determined the dates. The AMC shuttle was fine for spotting our car at Crawford Notch, and the early afternoon departure from Appalachia allowed plenty of time to reach Madison hut, check in, and take a quick trip up Madison.

Yes, no need to get water along the way, easy to reach Lakes on what we could carry. Was very windy for us, but the only rain we encountered was as we approached Washington. As Dave said, you can skirt summits if you need to, but keep in mind that on Washington, you have shelter and warm food and drink that's two miles closer than Lakes hut - so despite the weather, we decided it was better to get to the summit building. Luckily by the time we left, it improved considerably.

Lakes is big and crowded, not my favorite hut, but it's smack in the middle so it's the one you need to stay at. The last day out over the southern Presidentials was easier than the trip from Madison to Lakes, and more protected, at least after Monroe. Got to the car by mid-afternoon of the third day. And Dave's absolutely right that having your car right there for you at the finish is far superior to having to make arrangements to shuttle around and get it after a tiring trip like that.

It was fabulous and we thoroughly enjoyed it. We're pretty fit hikers but not young, and taking three days (well, two and a half on the trail) was just right.

 

[Legwound]

thanks for the replies, sounds like a great plan. I'll call tomorrow

 

[David Metsky]

I just checked online, and Lakes is listed as completely full from 7/27 to 8/6. There is limited availability on Wed 8/7.

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/availability/index.cfm/fuseaction/availability.main

Call Pinkham, they may be able to help.

 

[tomcat32]

I hiked it 2 weeks ago in day on hot day. It was 60 on Mt Washington around 1030 am with no wind and I was fine with my 2 liter bladder. The valleys were mid to upper 80s. Unless you drop, or animal chews it, a bladder won't just fail suddenly.

 

[Legwound]

yep I think I'll save the funds for food.

so checking hut availability it looks like I've left this for too late, even mid week. I'll call to be sure but it's looking like tenting is plan b.

So which tent sites should I be looking at, again starting from the north?

 

[David Metsky]

If you want to stick to two night trip you a some good options for the first night, not many for the second night. The Valley Way tentsite is about 1/2 mile below the hut on the Valley Way, and the RMC huts (Crag Camp and Gray Knob) are pretty well located below Mt Adams for the first night. You'll have to drop down off the ridge for the RMC huts and there's no tenting allowed at either; $15/night for non RMC members, $20 for members. The Perch, closer to Edmands Col, is a shelter with tent platforms. It's a better option of you want to get further along the ridge on day 2; $8 or $10 per night.

The second night is difficult, since there's no camping up high. No camping is allowed above treeline so you have to drop low. The best mid-hike option is Hermit Lake shelters in Tuckerman, but that's a big drop from the ridge. There's some camping below treeline on the Jewel Trail but again, you lose a lot of elevation to get there. The key is to find a place near water. You can go further down the ridge off the Edmands Path but if you go that far I'd just finish the traverse that day rather than camp again.

 

[peakbagger]

The camping option on Jewell trail is about 3/4 of a mile down the trail and 1000 feet of elevation down from the Gulfside Trail junction. In winter, hikers "cut the corner" down off Gulfside north of the junction but that is not recommended in summer due to rough terrain and damage to the alpine plants. It is not a campsite as such but merely one wide sort of flat spot (possibly 40 feet in diameter) on the right side of the trail with other sort of flat spots in the woods on the left in the firs. It would be tough to pitch a standard two man tent in the woods. This site is somewhat popular with AT thruhikers. This area is fully exposed to the west and despite some tree cover would not be a pleasant place to ride out a thunderstorm (on the other hand it would be hard to match the sunset on a clear evening just up the trail at treeline. There are no sanitary facilities at this location so watch your step while moving around in the woods as dayhikers and campers use this area as a toilet on occasion. There usually is water that intersects the Jewell trail above the tent site so fill up and then carry down. Do treat this water as its downhill from the Gulfside trail. The Edmands path camping is decidedly rougher unless you head way down. These "campsites" are legal but the FS has closed similar options in the past although I haven't heard of any current closures of these spots.

In my opinion, if you head down to Hermit Lakes (which is difficult due to need to get a daily ticket at Pinkham), most folks would have a hard time getting motivated to go back up the head wall. Its roughly 1.5 miles and 1783 feet of elevation loss.

Please don't consider camping above treeline, its illegal and if weather comes in over the night, you have zero cover.

One general comment is that the normal recommendation is that if you need to get off the ridgeline due to weather or emergency and you are heading south, always take the option to the right (east), heading left (west) inevitably drops you into very steep terrain quickly and the distance and time to get out to civilization is much longer. This is somewhat counterintuitive as the weather comes in from the west. Mt Eisenhower trail should never be considered as an option as Edmonds path is right nearby and the Dry River trail that Mt Eisenhower trail connects up with is closed due to significant storm damage.

Now you know why some of us like one day traverses so well . Realistically if you have the option of car spotting, breaking the hike into two or three day hikes is a nice alternative. Caps Ridge trail is quite popular as an intermediate point due to elevation. Some folks use the auto road shuttle up two days in a row and hike north one day and south the next. This is a nice option but don't underestimate the effort as the continuous rocks will wear out many folks. There are a couple of undeveloped camping spots on the north end of Jefferson Notch road.

 

[Brambor]

We did it 3 weeks ago. On the first night camped at Valley Way,visited the hut and climbed Madison and then hiked back down to Valley Way for the night. Second day hiked to Lakes of the Clouds and third day hiked out to 302.

If you don't go over the peaks then you could skip LOC and stay over at the Mizpah Tent site or hike it out to 302.

 

[Will]

Great advice: don't camp up there. The ONLY sensible advice to first timers or the relatively inexperienced.

And, maybe it would be better if no one questioned it at all, publicly; just let veterans camp up there to their hearts' content and tell everybody else not to. There are legitimate concerns about masses of people going off trail and trampling vegetation to get to a legal site.

However, in the interests of truth, treeline is sometimes not an absolute. You cross treeline on the way up, on the way to crossing treelike on the way down, but there are large patches of trees, or intruding fingers of the lower forest, in between. Additional restrictions apply as well as tree height, so it takes a lot of research. The available spots are frequently too small for a standard 2 person tent; sometimes the issue is height as they are bare ground spots beneath branches 4-5 feet high or so. Also these spots are sometimes along brush lines of least resistance (to call them "paths" would be optimistic) and I've seen them strewn with crap and tissue paper. The biggest issue may be that sometimes these spots are most easily reached by first traversing open off-trail areas of fragile vegetation; a crime, whether legal or against nature.

I think it's fine to advise people that a Presidential SHOULDN'T be done without huts or going 3/4 mile down a side trail to sleep. But it's jarring to see it stated or implied that you CAN'T.

I have absolutely no objection to this post being deleted by a moderator. No complaints. I'm basically just saying let's tell people they shouldn't do it, no need to mis-state or mislead.

EDITED TO ADD: If there is anything in the above that describes violating the rules I'd appreciate it being pointed out.

 

[David Metsky]

I think it's fine to advise people that a Presidential SHOULDN'T be done without huts or going 3/4 mile down a side trail to sleep. But it's jarring to see it stated or implied that you CAN'T.

The rules are that there is no camping above treeline, for experienced or inexperienced backpackers. This isn't advice so much as letting people know that there are rules against camping above treeline or in the Tuckerman or Huntington Ravine drainages except at designated sites. People violate those rules, and sometimes they get away with it and sometimes they get ticketed or told to move on.

 

[Legwound]

well here's my plan B

Procrastination/ignorance has forced modifications to the plan.

My wif and I are really only able to go from the 5th through 9th.

So available hut space was in Mitzpah on the 8th and Lakes on the 9th.

So the plan is park at Pinkham, shuttle to Crawford notch 8am Aug 8th. Hike to Mitzpah over Jacson and spend the night.

Next day hike to Lakes over Eisenhower, probably bounce up to Washington.

Spend the night in Lakes, hike down to Pinkham in the morning back to my vehicle.

I just booked this as it sounded like move or lose all hope of any hut space.

The wrinkle is the price I was quoted included breakfast and dinner. We'll be plenty fine bringing our own food and cook gear. The supervisor was out until the morning. I will be informed if they can provide hut space only.

So not what i had really planned but hey it's still worth doing.

Thoughts anyone?

Oh, thanks to all for your input so far, it's been a great help.

On the treeline camping. I'm not against combat camping where ever in my travels but in this case I think I would have followed camping rules just based on traffic. If we all break the rules it'll get messy. Easy for me to say now while sitting at my computer. Anyway i didn't mean to start a debate.

 

[Legwound]

Just an add on question

Does it sound doable/reasonable to hike from Lakes the morning of the 9th through Madison and down to Valley Way?

This seems to be opposite to the usual traverse route but looking at the interactive map (again while sitting) looks doable

Interactive map link for both myself and future folks searching threads

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/whitemountains/white-mountain-interactive-map.cfm

 

[teleskier]

The one other time I did this trip I took advantage of the 2-3 week window after Labor Day but before the Presi huts close for the season. Don't know if that's an option for you, but if it is, you generally find you can book the huts, mid-week at least, at the very last minute and get a much better chance at good weather in the process. Again, that may not be an option for you, but if it is, it's a good one.

 

[Legwound]

Good advice, our anniversary is in September. Maybe we can consider this as an orientation run for a full traverse later

 

[nartreb]

Here's a better map.
http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=44.26996,-71.29167&z=14&b=f

From Lakes to Valley Way is something close to ten miles, with a few noticeable cols (especially if you hit the summits). You can check on the topo map but I think Big George is about 1000ft above the Lake and Adams is about 800ft above its col; Madison and Jefferson are significant too (Clay is under 200 ft). A long enough day on the ridge, can be quite spectacular but might be a challenge with a heavy pack. Comparable to hiking from Crawford Notch the length of Crawford Path to the Lakes hut in one day.

 

[David Metsky]

you generally find you can book the huts, mid-week at least, at the very last minute and get a much better chance at good weather in the process.

Not at Lakes - they are booked up solid most of the summer.

 

[Will]

Does it sound doable/reasonable to hike from Lakes the morning of the 9th through Madison and down to Valley Way?

I've done it several times at various levels of fitness, and age, with no strain that I can remember, and I am a slow hiker. I do carry a very light pack though.

 

[teleskier]

Not at Lakes - they are booked up solid most of the summer.

Summer - absolutely. I was referring to the period after Labor Day but before they close, when the vacationers are gone. I've generally found it easy to book at the last minute then, at least on weekdays.