Quick Baxter State Park Questions

[DayTrip]

Planning my first official trip to Baxter State Park this year (late June likely) and I have a few quick questions that I could not seem to find answers to in the various PDF publications on there site. Lot of rules. Don't need detailed replies (although appreciated).

1) How many actual tents are allowed on the tent sites? See number of people allowed on reservation pages, group sizes, looks like 2 car parking spaces per site but no mention of how many tents allowed. If a site has a 6 person maximum can you theoretically have 6 tents too? Going with a small group and may wind up with a bunch of single person tents or a main tent and 1-2 small tents. Is that allowed? Would they fit on the sites? They sound small based on what I've heard and photos I Googled (assuming they were the actual sites).

2) If I stay in park at a site and travel to another area for whatever reason do I need a Daily Parking Pass (DUPR) for the other locations I might park or is my pass for my actual camping location sufficient? For example, let's say I'm staying at a tent site at Katahdin Stream and weather is lousy so I decide to make the drive over to Roaring Brook and take another trail to one of the ponds or lakes. Can I just go park there or do I need to reserve a space? If I understand it right Roaring Brook, Katahdin Stream and I think Abol all had a fixed number of spaces and no overflow is allowed. Seems like you really need to have an agenda for all possibilities and the appropriate passes to accommodate all these possibilities. Am I interpreting this correctly?

3) Alcohol. Can I drink in my camp site? I'm hardly a big drinker but the occasional craft beer after a long hike surely hits the spot. Regulations say all Maine regulations governing public consumption are enforced. I assume that means you can have an alcoholic beverage in your camp site but you can't walk around on the road or common areas with liquor. Is this correct?

4) For those of you who go often or may know Rangers, do you know what days of the week are considered the slowest in terms of hiker volume on Katahdin and the trails in general? I'll likely only have 4 days for the trip (one for driving up, one for driving back and two days to hopefully hit Katahdin via the Knife Edge if weather works out). So if Tuesdays (or whatever day) are slowest I want to reserve a site where that day is one of my two days if at all possible.

5) Late June is looking like my likely time window. In a typical Winter will the snow be gone at that point? I know you find snow into late May and even June here in NH sometimes so I'm wondering if that would be an issue considering what the typical Maine Winter is like.

6) If weather doesn't cooperate for Katahdin what would be your favorite alternate hike from Roaring Brook Campground? The hike into Chimney Pond looks like a great one but it looks like some other options are available (Sandy Stream, Katahdin Lake and South Turner Mt). Willing to take the slow drive to another trail head if another option is worthwhile for the day. Most of the other great hikes I've read about on VFTT and elsewhere appear no where near Roaring Brook and I assume are major drives time wise.

Appreciate any info those of you might have.

 

[TEO]

Planning my first official trip to Baxter State Park this year (late June likely) and I have a few quick questions that I could not seem to find answers to in the various PDF publications on there site. Lot of rules. Don't need detailed replies (although appreciated).

1) How many actual tents are allowed on the tent sites? See number of people allowed on reservation pages, group sizes, looks like 2 car parking spaces per site but no mention of how many tents allowed. If a site has a 6 person maximum can you theoretically have 6 tents too? Going with a small group and may wind up with a bunch of single person tents or a main tent and 1-2 small tents. Is that allowed? Would they fit on the sites? They sound small based on what I've heard and photos I Googled (assuming they were the actual sites).

Call & ask. While technically your example wouldn't seem to violate the rules, it very well could overcrowd a site.

2) If I stay in park at a site and travel to another area for whatever reason do I need a Daily Parking Pass (DUPR) for the other locations I might park or is my pass for my actual camping location sufficient? For example, let's say I'm staying at a tent site at Katahdin Stream and weather is lousy so I decide to make the drive over to Roaring Brook and take another trail to one of the ponds or lakes. Can I just go park there or do I need to reserve a space? If I understand it right Roaring Brook, Katahdin Stream and I think Abol all had a fixed number of spaces and no overflow is allowed. Seems like you really need to have an agenda for all possibilities and the appropriate passes to accommodate all these possibilities. Am I interpreting this correctly?

No, you don't need a DUPR, but unless you are camping at the the campground where the trailhead is, you don't have a guaranteed spot.

3) Alcohol. Can I drink in my camp site? I'm hardly a big drinker but the occasional craft beer after a long hike surely hits the spot. Regulations say all Maine regulations governing public consumption are enforced. I assume that means you can have an alcoholic beverage in your camp site but you can't walk around on the road or common areas with liquor. Is this correct?

Correct. You may drink at your campsite, but not in public areas.

4) For those of you who go often or may know Rangers, do you know what days of the week are considered the slowest in terms of hiker volume on Katahdin and the trails in general? I'll likely only have 4 days for the trip (one for driving up, one for driving back and two days to hopefully hit Katahdin via the Knife Edge if weather works out). So if Tuesdays (or whatever day) are slowest I want to reserve a site where that day is one of my two days if at all possible.

My guess is that your safe anytime between & including Monday through Thursday.

5) Late June is looking like my likely time window. In a typical Winter will the snow be gone at that point? I know you find snow into late May and even June here in NH sometimes so I'm wondering if that would be an issue considering what the typical Maine Winter is like.

Snow shouldn't be an issue. Bring your bug dope & maybe a headnet for when you're at camp.

6) If weather doesn't cooperate for Katahdin what would be your favorite alternate hike from Roaring Brook Campground? The hike into Chimney Pond looks like a great one but it looks like some other options are available (Sandy Stream, Katahdin Lake and South Turner Mt). Willing to take the slow drive to another trail head if another option is worthwhile for the day. Most of the other great hikes I've read about on VFTT and elsewhere appear no where near Roaring Brook and I assume are major drives time wise.

Denis Crispo once told me that every 3k'er in Baxter, of which South Turner is one, has a great summit. The Brothers-Coe loop is a phenomenal hike, the Owl is spectacular, & I've heard great things about Doubletop—it's on my to-do list. They're a bit of a drive from Roaring Brook, but except for possibly the Owl, which shares the Hunt trailhead, parking shouldn't be an issue. The Traveler Loop is, as many before me have said, one of the best hikes you'll ever do, but the drive is long enough from Roaring Brook that I would save it for another trip.

I've found the Nesowadnehunk campground is well placed for just about every trailhead except Roaring Brook, including the Traveler Loop.

 

[peakbagger]

I resisted the temptation to go to opening day yesterday, it was tough but if I go this year it will be with the rolling reservations.

With the exception of Katahdin Stream, in late june any day between sunday and Thursday is almost guaranteed.

Nesowadnehunk is a good place to sample the park but you need to be an early riser if you want to climb katahdin on a weekend to get ahead of the DUPR folks, during the week they rarely sell out DUPR passes so it not as important to beat the crowd. Forget hiking from Roaring Brook from this campground as its very long drive. From Roaring Brook on not so nice day I have been wanting to hike over to Katahdin Lake. If you want to check out Russell pond ts not a bad out and back hike. one caveat is you need to ford a couple of streams so not so good it is raining. In general unless you like to fish there aren't a lot of great options for a rainy day. One possibility is hike out of the park via the AT and then take the Abol Pond trail back in, but you end up with long road walk on the park road which is unpleasant at least and dangerous at worst.

If there are other folks and a nice day seriously consider a hike up and over the mountain. The hike up Helon Taylor to Pamola, over the Knifes Edge and down the Hunt trail is hard to beat. The part that's not so nice is the 2 hour round trip at the end of the day to retrieve your car at roaring brook.

Definitely DoubleTop North to South is a great hike but its weather dependent. If its nice day on Doubletop, its a better one on Katahdin. The Traveler Loop deserves a separate trip to the park. Its just not practical to do anything in the south of the park from the northern part. The great part with Traveler loop is most folks do it CCW so it likely you wont encounter anyone. A busy day on the travelers is 6 groups of hikers. The Lean Tos o the edge of the pond are great but if you have a group the bunkhouse is huge and a great deal. In general the bunkhouses are forgotten treasures in bug season. Not so nice later on in the summer when its hot but they have screens on the windows and wood stoves.

The tent sites vay by campsite. Six tents would be pushing it and there really is no spare parking spots for the extra guests in the campgrounds. You are best looking for a group site reservation and frequently there is at least one at Foster Field or the Roaring Brook group site. The group sites are great as they have a huge shared picnic pavilion for cooking and socializing.

 

[DayTrip]

I resisted the temptation to go to opening day yesterday, it was tough but if I go this year it will be with the rolling reservations.

With the exception of Katahdin Stream, in late june any day between sunday and Thursday is almost guaranteed.

Nesowadnehunk is a good place to sample the park but you need to be an early riser if you want to climb katahdin on a weekend to get ahead of the DUPR folks, during the week they rarely sell out DUPR passes so it not as important to beat the crowd. Forget hiking from Roaring Brook from this campground as its very long drive. From Roaring Brook on not so nice day I have been wanting to hike over to Katahdin Lake. If you want to check out Russell pond ts not a bad out and back hike. one caveat is you need to ford a couple of streams so not so good it is raining. In general unless you like to fish there aren't a lot of great options for a rainy day. One possibility is hike out of the park via the AT and then take the Abol Pond trail back in, but you end up with long road walk on the park road which is unpleasant at least and dangerous at worst.

If there are other folks and a nice day seriously consider a hike up and over the mountain. The hike up Helon Taylor to Pamola, over the Knifes Edge and down the Hunt trail is hard to beat. The part that's not so nice is the 2 hour round trip at the end of the day to retrieve your car at roaring brook.

Definitely DoubleTop North to South is a great hike but its weather dependent. If its nice day on Doubletop, its a better one on Katahdin. The Traveler Loop deserves a separate trip to the park. Its just not practical to do anything in the south of the park from the northern part. The great part with Traveler loop is most folks do it CCW so it likely you wont encounter anyone. A busy day on the travelers is 6 groups of hikers. The Lean Tos o the edge of the pond are great but if you have a group the bunkhouse is huge and a great deal. In general the bunkhouses are forgotten treasures in bug season. Not so nice later on in the summer when its hot but they have screens on the windows and wood stoves.

The tent sites vay by campsite. Six tents would be pushing it and there really is no spare parking spots for the extra guests in the campgrounds. You are best looking for a group site reservation and frequently there is at least one at Foster Field or the Roaring Brook group site. The group sites are great as they have a huge shared picnic pavilion for cooking and socializing.

My group will likely be 4 people but co-ed and some of us only know each other casually so privacy concerns would be the big reason for multiple tents. Definitely won't be 6. I was just exaggerating for clarity. Definitely don't need one of the group sites.

You actually reminded me of another question I forgot: if I stay in the park (and thus have already cleared the main gate) do I still need to wait at some sort of line at my trailhead in the AM and sign in with a ranger or do I just sign in at a kiosk and hit the trail when I'm ready? So if I feel like hitting the trail pre sun-up and get rolling is that an option?

 

[DayTrip]

Call & ask. While technically your example wouldn't seem to violate the rules, it very well could overcrowd a site.



No, you don't need a DUPR, but unless you are camping at the the campground where the trailhead is, you don't have a guaranteed spot.



Correct. You may drink at your campsite, but not in public areas.



My guess is that your safe anytime between & including Monday through Thursday.



Snow shouldn't be an issue. Bring your bug dope & maybe a headnet for when you're at camp.



Denis Crispo once told me that every 3k'er in Baxter, of which South Turner is one, has a great summit. The Brothers-Coe loop is a phenomenal hike, the Owl is spectacular, & I've heard great things about Doubletop—it's on my to-do list. They're a bit of a drive from Roaring Brook, but except for possibly the Owl, which shares the Hunt trailhead, parking shouldn't be an issue. The Traveler Loop is, as many before me have said, one of the best hikes you'll ever do, but the drive is long enough from Roaring Brook that I would save it for another trip.

I've found the Nesowadnehunk campground is well placed for just about every trailhead except Roaring Brook, including the Traveler Loop.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

So to clarify your DUPR answer, if I want to guarantee the possibility of parking at another location (not my "home" parking area) I would need to get a DUPR for that area for the same dates as my stay?

 

[Kyle D]

If you are considering staying outside of the park, Big Moose Inn and campground is about 8 miles from the gate. You can stay in hotel, cabins, lean to's, or tent. Showers, bar, restaurant, small beach on Lake Ambajejus across the street and right next to the North Woods store for beer/supplies. River Drivers is a great restaurant/bar that is a 5 minutes drive from there as well.

You will want to be prepared for bugs. If staying in a lean to, a bug net/shelter is a must.

The driving on the park road is tedious and can be rough and rutted, depending on the time of the year and recent rains. You might consider bouncing between different campgrounds. Roaring brook gives you great access to the classic Knifes Edge Loop as well as sandy stream pond and south turner mountain which are great destinations. I will echo peakbagger's comments that Nesowadnehunk campground is a great, quieter spot with close access to doubletop, the brothers-coe loop, and ledge falls (a great swimming hole). There are also cabins on Daicey and Kidney Pond that are awesome and would be a great reprieve from the bugs. You could stay at Daicey or Kindey for the duration and have close driving access to Hunt Trail and the hikes named above.

If backpacking, Chimney Pond is stunning and IMO the most gorgeous site in New England. Russell Pond is not far behind - more remote with countless day hikes in all directions. The Chimney Pond - Davis Pond - Russell Pond backpacking loop is unforgettable.

I've always had great luck calling the reservation office first thing in the morning (4 months from the start of trip date) to reserve sites. Good Luck. Have fun

 

[Kyle D]

And yes, to clarify, you would need to get a DUPR for the desired location to guarantee parking. (Katahdin Stream and Roaring Brook would be only ones to do this for)

 

[peakbagger]

You actually reminded me of another question I forgot: if I stay in the park (and thus have already cleared the main gate) do I still need to wait at some sort of line at my trailhead in the AM and sign in with a ranger or do I just sign in at a kiosk and hit the trail when I'm ready? So if I feel like hitting the trail pre sun-up and get rolling is that an option?

There is no line at the trailhead, if you want to hike up the mountain for sunrise, just sign out at the trailhead. Common courtesy would be check with the ranger the night before if you do plan on an early departure or late return. Many folks staying in the park do a sunrise or sunset hike from the summit. I have done a sunset hike inadvertently. There are some rules on the last time of the day you can head out hiking but that mostly to get folks down by dark.

The key thing with the DUPR passes is that they technically take precedence over people camped in the park at other campsites. If you are camping at any other campsite except for the one at the trailhead, if the DUPRs are sold out, then you need to be there before the DUPR folks are let through the Togue Pond gate and have driven to the trailhead which is typically around sunrise. If the DUPRs aren't sold out its not an issue and midweek in early season its rare they sell out.

The other reason to start going early prior to sunrise is the sunrise from the Roaring Brook side is spectacular, if you take Helon Taylor trail, its about 25 minutes to open rock patches and 45 to 60 minutes to above treeline. Photographers call the one hour around sunrise the golden hour and if you have spent a day on the east side of Katahdin you will know why, the entire east face lights up with very unusual light. I wish I knew how to photograph what I see. Definitely Ansel Adams territory on the right day (even though he only photographed out west). There is similar opportunity on South Turner and somewhat diminished but still great view from Sandy Stream Pond (with its almost inevitable resident moose). The mountain tends to make its own weather and frequently clouds (and crowds) form after noon at the summit so another good reason to go early.

 

[egilbe]

I can verify that the Chimney at sunrise is awe-inspiring.

 

[Lost Dad]

Not of particular interest to the OP due tot he timing, but may be good info for others:
There is road work "scheduled" for the perimeter road this summer; sometime after July 15. It will be disruptive especially for those planning on using the Nesowadnehunk campground, and those hiking in that area. This would eliminate the possibility of a Doubletop car spot (unless you really like driving) I can't imagine that there is any possibility of a detour. They are recommending Nesowadnehunk campers to enter from the north gate.

from http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/

This coming summer, we will be replacing two large culverts on the Park Tote Road between the Marston Trailhead and Slide Dam Picnic Area (see map).
To enable this work to be done, the Park Tote Road will be closed to through traffic at the construction site from Monday to Thursday one or two times between the period of July 15 and October 1. The timing of the closures is related to many factors, including weather, and cannot be determined ahead of time.
Campers arriving from points south and planning on camping at Nesowadnehunk Field Campground should plan on an alternate access via Matagamon Gate.
We expect to know the exact closure dates two weeks prior to the work and will post these dates as soon as they are determined. We appreciate your patience as we work to maintain the roads and facilities of Baxter State Park.

 

[Stan]

Regarding snow ... yes, insect repellant is more likely than snow, but I've been to Baxter in late June when a couple trails were still closed due to snow. However, such conditions might alter your route more than your destination but you never know. Snowed in trails and black flies are not mutually exclusive but your plans are more likely to be changed by stormy weather rather than residual snow. Have a Plan B in any case.

As for alcohol, your campsite could become "public" if your group gets too rambunctious. That kind of behavior is reserved for Katahdin summit

 

[Paul_Bear]

6) If weather doesn't cooperate for Katahdin what would be your favorite alternate hike from Roaring Brook Campground? The hike into Chimney Pond looks like a great one but it looks like some other options are available (Sandy Stream, Katahdin Lake and South Turner Mt).

All of those hikes are really nice.

- South Turner has an open summit with great views of Katahdin and the area so it's best on a nice day. A very nice reward for about half the effort of climbing Katahdin.
- Sandy Stream is an easy stroll from Roaring Brook with great views and sometimes moose (it's worth the effort to check out on your arrival and/or departure days no matter what else you do). It's a nice walk on any day no matter the weather. You can continue on to Whidden Pond to extend the hike.
- Katahdin Lake is an easy woods walk until you get to the lake where you get nice views of the Katahdin range.
- Also you could hike to Chimney Pond and call it day.

Personally I like to do my hikes close to my campground in Baxter. Driving the Perimeter Road is tedious and not particularly scenic for the most part.

 

[peakbagger]

I usually do South Turner if I am staying in Roaring Brook the day I drive up. I usually take the day off and get there early anyhow and South Turner is nice way to stretch the legs after a long car ride. Sandy Stream Pond is right along the way to South Turner so I get to swing by and see the resident moose. South Turner from Roaring Brook is at best a 2 hour loop from Roaring Brook. I have watched sunset from it but expect it would be nice. In season there are usually plenty of blueberries but sadly your timing is bit early for berries. There is really no good reason to do South Turner in the rain or low visibility. Sandy Stream Pond is good anytime as the moose are almost always hanging out.

One other hint is that BSP publishes campsite maps on the website, make sure that you don't just pick a random site take a look at the map. The sites that parallel the parking lot at Roaring Brook don't have much privacy and a lot of early morning traffic.

 

[egilbe]

I saw Bill Green last year after my gf and I hiked Hamlin peak. He asked me what I thought of the new, improved Chimney Pond trail. I laughed and said it sucked. Its still a rocky, bouldery trail, in spite of the boardwalks they are building to protect some of the wet areas. Its a pretty rough "trail" for the elevation gain.

There are some beautiful trails in BSP that don't go to the top of Katahdin.

 

[DayTrip]

I usually do South Turner if I am staying in Roaring Brook the day I drive up. I usually take the day off and get there early anyhow and South Turner is nice way to stretch the legs after a long car ride. Sandy Stream Pond is right along the way to South Turner so I get to swing by and see the resident moose. South Turner from Roaring Brook is at best a 2 hour loop from Roaring Brook. I have watched sunset from it but expect it would be nice. In season there are usually plenty of blueberries but sadly your timing is bit early for berries. There is really no good reason to do South Turner in the rain or low visibility. Sandy Stream Pond is good anytime as the moose are almost always hanging out.

One other hint is that BSP publishes campsite maps on the website, make sure that you don't just pick a random site take a look at the map. The sites that parallel the parking lot at Roaring Brook don't have much privacy and a lot of early morning traffic.

Thanks. I have the maps and would not have thought the road would be that bad. Good to know. Does that make the walk-in sites more desirable?

 

[egilbe]

The walk in sites are just that. You have to walk farther. You cant park your car next to the leanto or tentsite and unload your car. For example, at KSC, my leanto had my car parked next to it along the brook. Across the brook, was a walkin site. There was a screen of trees, but I could see their campfire and hear their kids.

At Roaring Brook, the leantos along the brook are pretty nice. The road passes behind the leantos. The parking lot is on the other side of the road and there is a strip of woods containing the outhouses between the parking lot and the road. Inbelieve there are some tentsites in that strip of woods, too. I didnt like the placement of the tentsites at roaring brook as much as the leanto sites. Early one morning, a doe walked down the leanto sites as my gf and I sat there drinking coffe and hot cocoa. We saw a doe coming back from Hamlin peak and a doe and her fawn when we walked around Daicey Pond. We also saw a young cow moose in Sandy Pond that trip. We talked to a former AT through hiker that had a flute and played a few notes to the moose who perked her ears up and stared at us for a long moment.

 

[peakbagger]

Tent sites 20 to 25 at roaring brook are the ones with no privacy, 11,12 16 to 19 are the walk ins with a bit more privacy. The walk is 100 yards at most. Due to the volume of traffic through Roaring Brook I would not leave valuables sitting around. There are frequently beggar deer at Roaring Brook, and along Chimney Pond trail. They are so cute when people feed them and then later they become aggressive and I expect end up as venison on some rangers menu. Please don't feed the deer. There on occasion are beggar moose at Chimney, I have had a calf try to join me in lean to once. Please don't feed the moose as an aggressive moose is not something anyone wants to mess with.

The park roads are not pleasant, they are maintained to be passable but are hard on small cars especially if driven fast. Possibly the north end of Jefferson Notch road is somewhat similar. I routinely drive small cars in there but care must be taken as the roads are barely two lanes wide with no shoulder and occasional rocks sticking up. They are signed at 25mph speed limit, 15 in populated areas and for most 25 mph is the fastest they want to go. Lot of blind corners and many visitors try to drive too fast in the middle of the road which is potentially dangerous at a blind corner. Thus a drive from KSC to roaring brook can be 1.5 hours. A drive to the north end of the park from roaring brook can be 2.5 to 3 hours. If you are following someone, the dust can be choking. In general most peakbaggers go for the standard Katahdin Hamlin day hike one day (which is real long day) from Roaring Brook. They pack up in the AM and then when they get back they drive to KSC and set up there for the night. The next day they do the Coe Brothers Fort loop (an even longer day). If they are really lucky they may get two good days in a row, but don't count on it. And then depressingly, they have clicked off the boxes on their lists never to return. Sort of like climbing Washington one day and Lafayette the next never to return to the whites. The reality is it takes a couple of trips to even scratch the surface of BSP and many folks don't even go into the backcountry in the heart of the park (Russell Pond campground is the place for a backpack. There is plan in place to add few trails to make a few backpacking loops and I am anxiously awaiting them.

A general comment is many folks who go to BSP misjudge distances and time to get places. A drive to the nearest store is 2 hours roundtrip at best and an hour or two longer at worst. If its a rainy day fine but don't waste vacation time driving. For those who want to stay outside the park with more amenities New England Outdoors has several types of lodging but you pay for it and you end up doing a lot of driving. A standard cooler will burn through ice in about a 24 hours, if you want ice and cold food you need an extra thick cooler and block ice or the alternative is to buy some dry ice before you leave the big city.

Folks used to use the Golden Road as a shortcut to get to the park from Millinocket, it is no longer faster (it a private road and in the past 80 mph was possible and I still would get passed). Now its beat up old road where they are ripping out the pavement in spots due to extensive potholes. The old state road to Abol bridge from Togue Pond road was reopened but it was logging road rough last year.

Most car navs do not work as there are no up to date databases of the park roads. If I turn mine on it always try to get me to leave the park via Abol Beach Road which was a road about 50 years ago and is now a trail.