nartreb
Well-known member
How tall is this bear / how low is your mailbox?
report of a hiker killed by a black bear in NJ
- Thread starter Chip
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sardog1
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Smart guy. I've edited the post. 
Raven
Well-known member
They must be tasty. I have friends in Dothen, Alabama that would likely agree.
Bears on crack on the other hand might not be much fun...for the rest of us anyway.
Chip
Well-known member
Raven, I like you. I would certainly hike with you. But I disagree with you. Let's forget about 300 years ago.
There are more bear in NJ now (vs. "none" 75 years ago) because habitat has improved (grass, gardens, trees, ponds, garbage cans, woodlands, open spaces, limited hunting, etc.).
Open, mature forest (or clear cut, or farmland) that can be hunted is not great habitat for many species.
I'll bet you a couple beers (not bears) that there are many more bear per square mile in NJ than ME.
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DougPaul
Well-known member
Human garbage, pet food, handouts, and bird feeders are much more efficient food sources than natural foods...
Doug
mosquitoe attack victim died
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/26/new-hampshire-patient-infected-with-eee-dies/
Looks like mosquitoes are killing more people than bears do. This is particularly sad as I personally know someone who died from EEE.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/26/new-hampshire-patient-infected-with-eee-dies/
Looks like mosquitoes are killing more people than bears do. This is particularly sad as I personally know someone who died from EEE.
Chip
Well-known member
No doubt. Sorry about the person you knew.
Raven
Well-known member
Raven, I like you. I would certainly hike with you. But I disagree with you. Let's forget about 300 years ago.
There are more bear in NJ now (vs. "none" 75 years ago) because habitat has improved (grass, gardens, trees, ponds, garbage cans, woodlands, open spaces, limited hunting, etc.).
Open, mature forest (or clear cut, or farmland) that can be hunted is not great habitat for many species.
I'll bet you a couple beers (not bears) that there are many more bear per square mile in NJ than ME.
Chip - I like you as well and will look forward to hiking together one of these days. You make a valid point but I crunched a few numbers because this is an interesting conversation.
Here's what I found:
New Jersey
8.9 million people (2013 projection)
7790 square miles
3500 black bear (2010 estimate)
Maine
1.3 million people (2013 projection)
33,128 square miles
25,000 black bear (2010 estimate)
Based on these figures and using 4 square miles as a reference, I calculate that:
NJ has 1.8 bears per 4 sq. miles
ME has 3.0 bears per 4 square miles. It's not quite twice as many per square mile, but it's a substantial difference.
On the other hand, human population:
NJ has a bit over 4500 people in those same 4 sq miles
ME has a bit over 150 people in those same 4 sq miles
NJ has a population density about 30X that of Maine.
The problem I have with a starting point of 100 years ago is that we are starting from a low point on a graph (low population point) and ignoring the more true (IMO) measure of bear population before being dessimated by settlers in North America. I think that misses an important part of the story and history of the impact of humans. As a comparison, let's say you gave me $100 a month for the past ten years until this past June then I started paying you $100 a month. If we only look at the data from June forward, it looks like you are making out well as you keep gaining money....but it's an artificial starting point and ignores important historical data. This is seen all the time in climate change arguments as well as economic ones.
Also, Maine is 90% forested. The bears have lots of habitat compared to NJ. Bears need space and large corridors to avoid people. They don't have much of it in NJ and therefore interactions have been on the increase. Yes, it seems that bears are on the rise in NJ - I won't argue that. I think it's a good thing and I think we as humans need to do a better job adapting to them.
We'll be reading stories soon of bears ordering $12 slices of pizza at Sbarro's on the Wildwood boardwalk.
By the way, your picture of the bear is awesome. I've come across maybe 8 bears on hikes but have yet to get a really great shot lined up. Maybe it's time to ride the Jersey turnpike with a camera.
Source for bear population numbers: http://www.blackbearsociety.org/bearPopulationbyState.html
The other data is easily found and verified for human population and square miles. I can't speak to the validity of the site referenced above but maybe some of the bear experts on here can. It's not the first time I've heard the 25,000 estimate for Maine though.
Chip
Well-known member
Okay. I owe you a couple beers !
By the way, your picture of the bear is awesome. I've come across maybe 8 bears on hikes but have yet to get a really great shot lined up.
Thanks. That was un-zoomed from the Mt Washington Resort parking lot.
alexmtn
Member
Chip, hold it on those beers for a moment... I too think that your point is valid, and would take Scott's numbers one step further to support it.
For this discussion, I think we really should be talking about the *forested* square miles (these are the square miles in which bears and hikers play) in each state. 42% of NJ's square miles are forested, vs. ME's 90%. This yields:
1.1 bears/forested sq. mile in NJ
0.8 bears/forested sq. mile in ME
Sadly, the majority of my own bear sightings have indeed been in the vicinity of human development. In fact, two of the sightings were in that same Bretton Woods area, in my case in Fabyans' backyard -- right out the window as my group enjoyed a post-hike dinner -- bears (a single bear on one occasion, 3 on the other) came out of the woods and indulged in spirited rounds of dumpster diving.
My guess is that until human behavior improves, in general the bear density will be higher than the above averages 'within range' of humans, and less the more wild the specific area.
Alex
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Stan
Well-known member
Statistics aside, anyone observing bears can probably attest that the vast majority of "problem" bears are those acclimated to human presence as a source of food. That could be a remote campsite or a suburban backyard. The number of bears has less to do with it than that acclimatization but the acclimitization is more likely to occur where there are more bears (and competition for food) and more people carelessly creating those acclimitization conditions. If using statistics, best to compare apples ... which bears enjoy, too.
The correllation of bears to beer, however, is more math than I can bare.
The correllation of bears to beer, however, is more math than I can bare.
I would agree that looking at the forested pieces makes more sense, but the numbers are fairly close in terms of bears square per mile (especially when you look at land, not just area). There are estimates that the Maine population is over 30k now. I couldn't find anything newer than 2010 for Jersey, but it's at least 3500 it seems, and likely higher. I'm wondering if there is a natal equilibrium of bears per square mile (since both states top out around 1.2 it seems). Of course, NJ is the densest state in the country, so the people to bear ratio is definitely an important factor regarding bear/human interactions. Here is my comma delimited research.
Stat, ME, NJ, Source(s)
Percent Forrested, 85.8%, 39.5%, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_cover_by_state_in_the_United_States
Square Miles (Land only), 30,843, 7,354, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_area
Forrested Acres 26,463 2,905,
Bears, 31,000, 3,500, http://www.blackbearsociety.org/bearPopulationbyState.html; http://www.pressherald.com/2014/08/24/bear-populations-grew-in-2-states-that-okd-limits/
Bears/Forsested Square Mile, 1.17, 1.20,
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Raven
Well-known member
If you are ever going to lose a few beers on a bet to someone, I'm a good candidate - that won't cost you a thing!
And I do think you have a good point.
Dana
Member
Part of NJ is certainly densely populated, but when I lived there (27 years ago, dunno if this is still true) it was said that if you divided the state cutting off the northeastern part (where most all of the people live), what was left would be the least densely populated state in the US other than Alaska. The pine barrens are still pretty empty. Of course, since then it seems that half of northern NJ has moved down to the shore by now.
This was taken at a group camp in Harriman, not far from the NJ border... yeah, they like people food:
This was taken at a group camp in Harriman, not far from the NJ border... yeah, they like people food:
That may be true - it looks like the bears are migrating south as well! http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/images/bear/bear_sightings_map.jpg
I wouldn't call W Milford 'overpopulated'. Once you get across the street from the lake, you're in the forest.
Here's another NJ bear from yesterday (9/30). Bear walks thru Ridgewood across the street from Elementary school. Climbs tree after taking a rubber bullet in the butt from the cops. Ridgewood is a fairly 'cosmo' town. 15 miles n/w of GW bridge, on major train line to NYC. 25k residents, expensive houses, mostly 1/4 - 1/2 acre lots, but lots of trees.
http://patch.com/new-jersey/ridgewo...lementary-school-ridgewood-video#.VCxu8BY1DYQ
Here's another NJ bear from yesterday (9/30). Bear walks thru Ridgewood across the street from Elementary school. Climbs tree after taking a rubber bullet in the butt from the cops. Ridgewood is a fairly 'cosmo' town. 15 miles n/w of GW bridge, on major train line to NYC. 25k residents, expensive houses, mostly 1/4 - 1/2 acre lots, but lots of trees.
http://patch.com/new-jersey/ridgewo...lementary-school-ridgewood-video#.VCxu8BY1DYQ
Stan
Well-known member
Bears don't migrate as some mammals do. What appears to be a "migration" is really the species expanding their territory as they are territorial and males will move to new territories in search of mates. They hunker down in winter but may eventually move out of a territory if a more dominant bear moves in or if food gets scarce.
I think another error is the notion that they "like" people food. They are opportunists and will follow the least resistence to food. They are omnivores and eat anything. A dumpster is easy pickings, sort of like a fast food restaurant ... in more ways than one I'd say. Likewise with bird feeders and even small pets. They are aggressively hungry in spring after that long winter nap and natural sources of food in comparative short supply and fall when they are fattening up for the winter.
alexmtn
Member
Black bear eats man in CA
This time it apparently was not an attack.
http://news.yahoo.com/most-california-mans-body-eaten-black-bear-194542993.html
This time it apparently was not an attack.
http://news.yahoo.com/most-california-mans-body-eaten-black-bear-194542993.html
Chip
Well-known member
"We're not going to find the bear," he said. "The bear was behaving naturally." That's good. Nature.
Tom Rankin
Well-known member
I see what you are saying but bears exist in virtually every state along the eastern seaboard, except possibly RI and DE.
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