SAR Who Should Pay?

[DSettahr]

Backcountry rescues by the military organizations are considered training missions and are paid for out of the training budgets. (The personnel and aircraft would otherwise fly training missions to get in their training hours.)

Doug

This is one of the reasons I think you always see politicians getting flack for using helicopters for transportation- the general public doesn't realize that the helicopters are going to get flown anyways, with or without passengers. Better to put them to use in conjunction with the necessary flight time to keep the pilot's certifications current.

 

[Breeze]

Yes, there is no reimbursement for volunteer manpower. But there are other expenses.

First off, not all SAR folks are volunteers. Not sure how it works in NH, but here in NY, all SAR operations are directed by NYS Forest Rangers, who are "on the clock" during a search. During a major search, in addition to the tens of volunteers who show up, there can be anywhere from 5 to 10 or even more forest rangers involved. The amount of overtime in a single search can really add up.

Secondly, there are expenses for things other than manpower hours. Volunteers are often compensated for damage or wear and tear for their own personal gear. Food is often provided for the rescuers. So and and so forth- the expenses can and do add up.

Are USFS staff or F&G Conservation Officers hourly or salaried ?

If volunteers are compensated in cash in any way, are they truly volunteers? Or do we strip them of that level of service to community and make them pay taxes all on reimbursement for any involvement?

Are Salvation Army, the American Red Cross, the Junior League or the Wives of XYZ Volunteers, or the local Knights of Columbus or the Senior Class of any local high school who willingly provide food, beverages and a cot for someome in a SAR effort incurring a billable expense?

You aren't convincing me, and I doubt that I'm convincing you.

That isn't a bad thing. Its all in the dialog.

Breeze

 

[RoySwkr]

NH Air Guard doesn't charge for helicopter services. Neither does VT nor ME. Convince me that VT or ME guard crews wouldn't/ couldn't/ won't / can't offer back-up to neighbor states?

Many many many if not most boots on the ground or in the air for SAR are not paid anything for their SAR efforts.

Who the heck IS being PAID " EXTRA" during an SAR ? Are there true real-time expenses for NH F&G or are there just fees/fines /fishing for dollars being floated ?

NH F&G bears the NH state legislative mandate which amounts to ( help me out here if I'm so stupid to be over my head ) -- there has to be a ( one) uniformed NH F&G Conservation Officer in charge of every SAR mission.

Much of the expense in the "Eagle Scout" case was for out of state helicopter service because none from NH was available

Yes, many rescuers are volunteers or the bills would be even higher

Conservation officers are paid overtime

Some local rescues take place before F&G is notified, but they are eventually called for big ones

 

[Little Rickie]

The more this goes around in circles, the more confused I get. I must be the freaking village idiot. Maybe I just see too much and have no voice

Did you really expect all this to make sense?

"Never give up. Never surrender."

 

[Nessmuk]

Yes, there is no reimbursement for volunteer manpower. But there are other expenses.

First off, not all SAR folks are volunteers. Not sure how it works in NH, but here in NY, all SAR operations are directed by NYS Forest Rangers, who are "on the clock" during a search. During a major search, in addition to the tens of volunteers who show up, there can be anywhere from 5 to 10 or even more forest rangers involved. The amount of overtime in a single search can really add up.

Secondly, there are expenses for things other than manpower hours. Volunteers are often compensated for damage or wear and tear for their own personal gear. Food is often provided for the rescuers. So and and so forth- the expenses can and do add up.

This is the second Thanksgiving in a row that I spent the day on a search as a volunteer. As usual, quite a few rangers spent their Thanksgiving on site as well, most I know quite well, either from previous searches or who I meet often in the woods hiking.

"often compensated"???
I've been at this for quite a few years, but have never heard anything about compensation for damage or wear and tear of personal gear. If this is true, I'd certainly like to hear about it. My gear is all out of pocket, though our search squad does have equipment and insurance purchased thanks to income from a very active summer tent rental program, with labor provided free from the membership.

We do usually get sandwiches and drinks provided sometime during an active search, which either comes out of the local host fire department auxillary, or is often donated by the local market. Many times the subject's family will fund it all.

When you consider that a small army of rangers is involved, talk to the families to see if it is worth it to them. Two weeks ago a man disappeared after a 2:00 AM roll-over accident. The sheriff's department decided to manage the search themselves without calling in DEC. Family, friends, and deputies randomly wandered the woods and fields for the next several days. On days 5 and 6 it rained and no one went out to look for the man. Not until seven days after the accident did the sheriff decide to call in trained search teams. The man's body was found within 3 hours after organized searchers hit the field.

The current search will continue Friday morning. I'll be there.

 

[Breeze]

Thanks Nessmuk.

Breeze

 

[mtnpa]

Yes, there is no reimbursement for volunteer manpower. But there are other expenses.

First off, not all SAR folks are volunteers. Not sure how it works in NH, but here in NY, all SAR operations are directed by NYS Forest Rangers, who are "on the clock" during a search. During a major search, in addition to the tens of volunteers who show up, there can be anywhere from 5 to 10 or even more forest rangers involved. The amount of overtime in a single search can really add up.

Secondly, there are expenses for things other than manpower hours. Volunteers are often compensated for damage or wear and tear for their own personal gear. Food is often provided for the rescuers. So and and so forth- the expenses can and do add up.

In NH SAR volunteer teams assist F&G run operations.
We are considered unpaid state employees while on a mission and are insured against inury or catastrophie.

We provide, repair and replace our own gear and get to and from missions at our own expense.

BTW hiker rescues generally involve just manpower which involves some F&G overtime. Normally not a huge expense.
Searches on the other hand when they last over an extended period of time tend to run up costs. Often these searches are not for hikers.

The state needs to recognize SAR as part of the cost of being in the tourist business.

 

[Little Rickie]

This is not covered by Obama-care??????

Utoo. Duck everyone. Here it comes!

Cheap shot man even by my cheap shot standards.