Sites similar to VFTT

[Mike P.]

I've sponsored people I've met on the trails and they have contributed. I will say that I had more VFTT when I spent more time on NH trails then on CT trails. I have forwarded the NETC Site to local BSA district, figuring if i can get more people posting in underrepresented CT (as far as trail conditions posted in CT) I'll look at sending some scout adults here also.

Funny thing, back in November, I went to a State Park to meet a couple of scouts and their Moms with their troop swag, fleece jackets with the troop logo. The terrain is pretty easy and I know the area well and was in contact with the group. I had no pack, sneakers, shorts and a t-shirt. (It was one of those really warm days we had in November.) I had the fleece in a plastic grocery bag. I came across a couple and they mentioned you usually do not see someone carrying just a plastic bag. I asked if they saw a couple of Moms and kids and that I had fleece for them in the bag. Judging by their expressions, they seemed concern that I didn't know where they were and if I had fleece for them, they may have been ill equipped also. I mentioned that they were scouts and that was not a comforting statement. Scouts, moms. not having fleece and me looking for them shouldn't have raised concern. (Prior to having kids of my own, I had come across lost parts of scout groups split up or planning trips above treeline in iffy weather.)

I'm thinking that should change, even if just a few leaders at a time. A big part of that is getting more information than they have now. VFTT and NETC can be part of that.

 

[maineguy]

There reportedly is some dark history on the AMC sponsorship requirement that AMC regrets and tried to make amends long ago and continues to do. Like any social organization pre 1960s membership sponsorships were intended to make sure that the new members met the unwritten standards of the club and the keep the "riff raff" out. AMC of the past was a social organization of predominately privileged white anglo saxon protestant Boston educated members, having a sponsorship requirement was a way of enforcing the clubs makeup. This was not exclusive to AMC it was just the reality in US prior to the sixties. I think the AMC NH chapter members tended to enjoy their outlaw status of including the "riff raff" years ago. Gene Daniels, a proud NH Chapter member mentions the AMC 4K committee sending automatic sponsorships to every successful applicant in his essay in the WMG 100 edition book and remember getting my sponsorship along with my certificate. (Incidentally if you haven't read the essays in that book they are very interesting view into the history of the AMC in the whites, worth finding a copy)

Over the years in the north country I ran into several older folks who commented that they wanted to work at the AMC huts when young but those jobs inevitably went to college kids with connections in the club. At least a couple folks mentioned that they could work as "the help" in the kitchens at Pinkham or the housekeepers at Joe Dodge doing the dirty work for many seasons but it was rare for a local to work their way up into public position, those were normally staffed by the Boston crowd as a stepping stone up into the organization.

Well, if they were trying to keep the riff raff out, they certainly failed when it came to my membership. A kid from Brooklyn no less. Of course, my sponsors were a member of the clergy and a WMNF ranger.

 

[ChrisB]

There reportedly is some dark history on the AMC sponsorship requirement that AMC regrets and tried to make amends long ago and continues to do. Like any social organization pre 1960s membership sponsorships were intended to make sure that the new members met the unwritten standards of the club and the keep the "riff raff" out. AMC of the past was a social organization of predominately privileged white anglo saxon protestant Boston educated members, having a sponsorship requirement was a way of enforcing the clubs makeup. This was not exclusive to AMC it was just the reality in US prior to the sixties. I think the AMC NH chapter members tended to enjoy their outlaw status of including the "riff raff" years ago. Gene Daniels, a proud NH Chapter member mentions the AMC 4K committee sending automatic sponsorships to every successful applicant in his essay in the WMG 100 edition book and remember getting my sponsorship along with my certificate. (Incidentally if you haven't read the essays in that book they are very interesting view into the history of the AMC in the whites, worth finding a copy)

Over the years in the north country I ran into several older folks who commented that they wanted to work at the AMC huts when young but those jobs inevitably went to college kids with connections in the club. At least a couple folks mentioned that they could work as "the help" in the kitchens at Pinkham or the housekeepers at Joe Dodge doing the dirty work for many seasons but it was rare for a local to work their way up into public position, those were normally staffed by the Boston crowd as a stepping stone up into the organization.

The perception of exclusivity has been a problem for the AMC for some time. I have an Appalachia Journal from December 1992 that includes an article about the Clubs “exclusivity” problem titled: The Modern Dilemma of Wilderness Access.

Author Rosalind Williams points out the hurdles to participation are economic and social, and calls on the club to “...make special efforts to reach out to socioeconomic groups unlikely to pass the ruggedness test.” She defines ruggedness as the desire and ability to go to the wilderness.

Like the AMC, VFTT has been a self-selected group, mirroring the class and economic structure in our society.

No fault implied. But maybe in this new era we should all focus a bit on inclusivity instead of bashing the clueless and unprepared (which I am guilty of).

 

[sierra]

I've been a member since 2004, jeesh when you say it out loud, it seems like a long time. My one complaint with this site is the lack of traffic, but that being said, you make up for it in legitimate content verse useless commentary. The two things I like about this site, it's for adults that respect each other for the most part, the occasional joust (guilty) is quickly reined in by admin. Secondly, I've been out in the backcountry since around 1980. I consider the members here my peers, when I mention Sherpa snowshoes, they know what I'm talking about. There are not many sites where you can find this many members who have been at it as long as a lot of us have. That lends to the both the quality of the content and dare I say at least for me comradery.

 

[skiguy]

VFTT changed a lot and lost a lot of members when Darren left. At that point the entire site became much more sterile to the liking of some but not to many more others. With that also came a decrease in personable comradery. Given there was and had been a history of rif raf or off colored comments, but the hammer came down hard. Members were banned and warned. I would agree a certain level of house cleaning was needed but not to the extent that occurred IMO. At this point that is all ancient history and what is and has been remains. When this all first went down and shortly there after the underlying life of this site was extinguished. That metamorphosis reinvented VFTT but it also coincided with the growth of Social Media sites which is where people moved because they wanted just that sociability. VFTT has and still remains and excellent source of information and the Mods for the most part do a good job. Nothing is perfect. But VFTT has and has been for some time a relatively small core of group members and obtaining growth at this point IMO would be very difficult. Let's just say VFTT is a more cerebral experience now and less social. It seems newbies are looking more for the latter.

 

[Daniel Eagan]

I don't contribute enough but I appreciate the knowledge on display here. I also feel the site is very well managed. I can do without flame wars. The information here is more reliable than other social media, especially as I am familiar with many of the people who post here. Message boards may be going the way of listservs, although there are sites in Colorado, Arizona, Oregon, etc., that are still robust. I am contractually forbidden from using Facebook, and would not want to be on that site anyway.

I miss some of the old timers, but again I am grateful for all the work behind this site.

 

[peakbagger]

I found that a lot of the "personalities" departed when the Rocks on Top schism occurred.

 

[maineguy]

I found that a lot of the "personalities" departed when the Rocks on Top schism occurred.

What was that?

 

[peakbagger]

Rocks On Top was a forum created by folks who objected to Darren's (the original creator and owner of the VFTT forum and long term moderator) moderation. The break centered around one particular controversial individuals action but I expect there were other issues that precipitated it I think they had both a public and private subforums. I think it had a smaller but active user group than VFTT. I think the original moderator Salty? decided to move on then a committee kept it functioning albeit at very low use until one day it just disappeared. Early on there were occasional sniping comments with respect to VFTT but eventually it seemed to cover many of the same topics.

 

[ChrisB]

Rocks On Top was a forum created by folks who objected to Darren's (the original creator and owner of the VFTT forum and long term moderator) moderation. The break centered around one particular controversial individuals action but I expect there were other issues that precipitated it I think they had both a public and private subforums. I think it had a smaller but active user group than VFTT. I think the original moderator Salty? decided to move on then a committee kept it functioning albeit at very low use until one day it just disappeared. Early on there were occasional sniping comments with respect to VFTT but eventually it seemed to cover many of the same topics.

In it early days (1997?) VFTT was like a family of like minded folks who loved hiking, running lists, and sharing their adventures and learning from each other. Grou trips to Baxter (summer & winter) six-packs, and even Rainer were organized and planned on the site.

There were twice-yearly get-togethers dubbed "Gatherings" where hiking was the daytime goal and socialization and camaraderie the night. Awards were given (a pee bottle, a leather apron) and friendships were reinforced and solidified. Peakbagger made the spaghetti, Audrey the sauce and Bubba from NY the brownies. Eric and Freddie played acoustic and a house band took shape.

As the family expanded and grew new members joined the core group. We met our drunken uncle, lecherous cousin, naughty aunt and nephew with a great business opportunity. In-fighting and disagreements became frequent and the Gatherings went bacchanal.

In the meantime Darren was having serious knee trouble and could not hike as vigorously as he wanted to. That, combined with the erosion of civility and bonhomie signaled the end of VFTT Phase 1. In retrospect I guess it was inevitable. The rise of social media / FaceBook filled the vacuum.

I presently belong to a few motorcycle-owner sites and they hearken back to the old VFTT. Lots of discussion, advice sought and provided, equipment reviewed and rides planned. It feels like a community of the like-minded motor-heads. But even there an oddball will need to be reigned in or banned now and then. Thank god for good moderators.

So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
cb

 

[egilbe]

I've met more people on Facebook, than on this site. Forums are too anonymous. At least Facebook one can see their profile and pics. The only person I know I've met on this site, in person, is Ward's girl. The rest of you, I may have run into once in a while on a summit or on a hike, but usually just a nod and a "how are you doing?" and we move on. I'm really surprised I haven't met peakbagger on his rambles, but I've never met Phil Werner of Sectionhiker fame, either. My GF met Phil one day at Galehead. They were carrying the same pack. I've met more than a few people from Whiteblaze, got a ride from Miss Janet in Grafton Notch, ran into Rainman and Teacher and Snacktime in Caratunk.

I like this site. Its full of knowledgeable people. I don't even mind the strict moderation of politics. At least I know what I'm getting here. Facebook is repetitive with the same newbie questions, sometimes daily, ad nauseum.

Covid is making me fat. Now that I've completed the NE67, I'm in the same lull I was last year when completing the NH48. Kinda drifting when it comes to hiking. I don't feel the need to hike in any more blizzards or hurricanes, don't feel like driving to a trailhead that's overun with loud talkers throwing their snotty tissues on the ground and not burying their poop. This year was weird. I'm becoming curmudgeonly. Not the charming type, either.

I need to take a hike. After I lose 20 pounds.

 

[ChrisB]

Covid is making me fat. Now that I've completed the NE67, I'm in the same lull I was last year when completing the NH48. Kinda drifting when it comes to hiking. I don't feel the need to hike in any more blizzards or hurricanes, don't feel like driving to a trailhead that's overun with loud talkers throwing their snotty tissues on the ground and not burying their poop. This year was weird. I'm becoming curmudgeonly. Not the charming type, either.

I need to take a hike. After I lose 20 pounds.

You are PERFECTLY positioned to take on the 100 Highest!

No more crowded trailheads, hiking rookies or snotty tissues. Maybe some orange tape here n there but that's it. And bushwhacking (even on a herd path) causes rapid weight loss.

 

[skiguy]

You are PERFECTLY positioned to take on the 100 Highest!

No more crowded trailheads, hiking rookies or snotty tissues. Maybe some orange tape here n there but that's it. And bushwhacking (even on a herd path) causes rapid weight loss.

Try googling 100 Highest and Curmudgeon at the same time. Just that somewhat synonymous results.

 

[Mike P.]

Try googling 100 Highest and Curmudgeon at the same time. Just that somewhat synonymous results.

At one point, on paper, I had a funny list of "signs you are a peakbagger" and I'm pretty sure being grumpy was one of them. Long hours in the rain to reach a point you can check off and have a steely focus on the horizon as if you were looking for that next peak and walking funny of course after a weekend of hiking were on my list.

So I looked up 10 signs you are a peakbagger can came across this list: (Peakbagger.com)
Ten Signs you may be a Peakbagger
You have continued to a summit beyond a reasonable turn-back point despite terrible weather, including white-outs.
You keep a detailed log of all your climbs: peak name, date, weather, companions, etc.
You have taken hiking or climbing trips where the travel time to and from the base of a mountain is greater than the time spend in climbing the mountain.
You have made an effort to reach a spot in the lowlands that is completely undistinguishable except as the high point of something (for example, the highest point in Iowa)
You have visited a tropical island and climbed it's highest peak without ever going swimming or visiting a beach while there.
You see rock climbers on a sheer face and wonder why they bother, when there is a much easier way up on the other side.
You have driven over 2000 miles in a single weekend in order to climb a peak or peaks.
You have some familiarity with the concept of "prominence"/"shoulder drop"/"vertical rise above a col" and how it can be used to qualify a list of summits.
After the top of a technical climb, you took time to scramble over and "tag the summit".

BTW, the highest point in Bermuda is in a small grassy area up some stairs from one of the fancy hotels, The Fairmont, I believe. My favorite summit I have not visited but looked at and seems useless is Mt. Sunflower, highpoint in KS

If you search, using Bing, "You Know you are a peakbagger" VFTT comes up 4th and 5th and the first FB hit is for something unrelated. Apparently Page, the Zuck and others at Google and FB are not Peakbaggers.

As a bit of history, I did look up a friend over the summer from long ago who was part of the Rainer crew who stopped hiking after a tragic ski accident. He's exploring the underwater world and is on a scuba site like this, still using the name he had here. The water it would appear helps with some of his issues he had after the accident with mobility.

Finally, in this time of socially distance and thinking of sites like VFTT and how FB has made Bulletin boards passé, I give you a chance to meet our down under brethren: https://bushwalk.com/forum/viewforum.php

It looks almost like the same software (I'm at best a dopey user) and the same topics albeit in their locale. I found it looking up peakbagging.

Happy Holidays all

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I wrote a Trip Report a part of an experiment spurred on by this thread. I remember all of the things now that vBulletin does poorly that Facebook excels at.

- Uploads - winner, Facebook - select 21 photos and post to an album. I don't want the photo storage service to expire, so I had better upload them to vftt. vBulletin - upload 1 photo at a time. Oops, limit of n (10, I can change this) reached. Oh, I need to resize them to fit nicely in the vBulletin text frame. Oh, I need to convert the inline attachments to IMG tags to display them inline...

- Visibility - winner, Facebook - I can control who sees what. vBulletin is open to readers from anywhere, any time. Granted, Facebook is probably using my data way more than any public consumer of my vBulletin posts, but I can control who in the public sees my pictures.

- Tagging - winner, Facebook - automatically suggest and is usually correct the location the photos were taken. vBulletin - I have to search for tags created by who knows who and when and probably create my own. Facebook automatically identifies most of my friends. vBulletin, I don't know most of your real names.

- Searching - winner, Facebook - can search by post, by photo, by tagged people. vBulletin, kinda search works. Usually resort to google with +site:www.vftt.org.

- Commenting - winner, Facebook - can comment right on the post, the album, individual photos, etc. vBulletin, you can reply, but you have to quote, and then to not reproduce the entire post, edit the quote...

- News Feed - winner vBulletin! Yes, vBulletin remembers what you've read and presents the unread stuff in chronological order. Facebook presents stuff in the the order which is to maximize your eyeballs remaining on their site and consuming ads. Granted Facebook has notifications, but I have them off on my phone and only look at them on the web and only for comments.

I spend, on average, 30-60 minutes writing a TR for vBulletin and 3-5 minutes sorting pictures and writing a description for the album for Facebook and my phone and Facebook do the rest. It's not hard to see why Facebook will win every time.

That said, vftt still exists largely because the average experience level is far above most. That's why it is hard to become a member - many find that barrier too daunting (a DayTrip said, and I appreciate that he plunged right through it!)

Tim

 

[iAmKrzys]

Ten Signs you may be a Peakbagger
[...]
You have visited a tropical island and climbed it's highest peak without ever going swimming or visiting a beach while there.

This one made me chuckle, as I certainly have been guilty of doing this (perhaps less the assertion that I haven't been swimming): https://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?59166-Mount-Obama-4-17-17

 

[Hillwalker]

Alligator Eggs?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Alligator Eggs?

You were my sponsor

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

Snicker Bars were also supposed to be the secret token passed between members. McRat also did the Ice Cream Bar variation one day on Franklin (but was down to only one left after handing them out as random acts of foolishness).

 

[Hillwalker]

You were my sponsor

Tim

Yes I remember. I think we met one day When I was coming down the Osseo Trail, and you were ascending.