Snow Avalanches on Whitehall (Zealand)?

[dave.m]

Does anybody know if there is a history of snow avalanches coming down off of Whitehall cliffs in Zealand Notch and causing avalanche risk while traversing under the cliffs on the Zealand trail?

Does anybody know who at the AMC or USFS would be a good contact person to speak about the history of avalanche reports at that location?

By way of background, this issue has come up over on the Telemark Tips forum regarding avalanche exposure in the East.

TIA,

 

[dug]

I'm sure there are some, but due to the southern exposure whenever I've been by there the snow levels were very low. Lots of exposed rocks.

Anyone else see something different?

 

[Hillwalker]

Whitewall

I go through there at least once every winter. On very snowy winters the old railroad grade below the cliffs can get completely filled up with snow so that there are places where you are traversing across a very steep snow slope. Since the slope faces west the snow gets consolidated pretty quickly. In fact the "book" recommendations are that you enter the stream bed up near the Zealand Pond end and follow the stream down to join a logging road below Thoreau Falls for the trip into the Pemi Wilderness. I have never done this, since my route usually is down via Shoal Pond trail to Stillwater and then out to Lincoln Woods. Once in a while when the snow depths permit I will ski in just to make some runs on the slopes below the cliffs. I don't think that the expanse of the snow/scree slopes below the cliffs is extensive enough to collect enough snow to avalanche much. Last winter I skied in three times from Rte 302 for lunch at the hut and to mess around in the snow. I love winter

Hillwalker - formerly Dalraida

 

[DougPaul]

I go through there at least once every winter. On very snowy winters the old railroad grade below the cliffs can get completely filled up with snow so that there are places where you are traversing across a very steep snow slope. Since the slope faces west the snow gets consolidated pretty quickly.

I've skied across when the ledge was filled in. I was defintely concerned... While it looked like it could avalanche, I didn't see any evidence that one had occurred.

In fact the "book" recommendations are that you enter the stream bed up near the Zealand Pond end and follow the stream down to join a logging road below Thoreau Falls for the trip into the Pemi Wilderness.

Which book? I checked Goodman and the WMG and didn't see anything. Looks ok on the topo, but IIRC, the bottom of the notch is a big boulder field which would have to be filled in. (Enough snow to make the trail hazardous might be enough to fill in the boulder field.)

By way of background, this issue has come up over on the Telemark Tips forum regarding avalanche exposure in the East.

Which thread? I searched for it and couldn't find it.

Doug

 

[David Metsky]

http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13138

It's quite long but very interesting reading.

-dave-

 

[DougPaul]

http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13138

It's quite long but very interesting reading.

Thanks,

Doug

 

[Hillwalker]

Whitewall Brook stream bed

I've skied across when the ledge was filled in. I was defintely concerned... While it looked like it could avalanche, I didn't see any evidence that one had occurred.


Which book? I checked Goodman and the WMG and didn't see anything. Looks ok on the topo, but IIRC, the bottom of the notch is a big boulder field which would have to be filled in. (Enough snow to make the trail hazardous might be enough to fill in the boulder field.)


Which thread? I searched for it and couldn't find it.

Doug

I too looked in Goodman's book, and as you said, not there. It might have been in one of Doan's books, but I gave them away years ago. The stream bed is pretty flat and open where the Zeacliff trail crosses it, and I think that it remains pretty much so all the way to the Pemi junction. Maps even show a small pond down in there.
I never have been tempted to try the stream bed option.

 

[DougPaul]

I too looked in Goodman's book, and as you said, not there. It might have been in one of Doan's books, but I gave them away years ago. The stream bed is pretty flat and open where the Zeacliff trail crosses it, and I think that it remains pretty much so all the way to the Pemi junction. Maps even show a small pond down in there.
I never have been tempted to try the stream bed option.

OK thanks.

Worth keeping the option in mind next time I ski through the notch. Of course, if there is an avalanche, it will likely collect in the bottom of the notch. At least you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you didn't trigger it.

I have skied up Thoreau Falls Tr--it was rather steep alongside the falls. Required skins plus vegetation pulls at one narrow point...

Doug

 

[Jasonst]

Do you mean the Ethan Pond trail?

 

[Hillwalker]

Bypassing the Falls

On the occasions that I have skied down Thoreau Falls trail. I usually continue along the Ethan Pond trail to the bridge, cross, then turn right and a short "thin" bushwhack brings you out a bit of the way down the T Falls trail. This eliminates the sometimes dicey crossing of the river above the falls. This is also a good springtime option in times of very high water. I almost lost one of my Labs crossing one wet spring. He was nearly swept over the falls. A quick collar grab kept him from going over.

 

[DougPaul]

Do you mean the Ethan Pond trail?

If you are asking me, I was skiing up Thoreau Falls Tr, to Ethan Pond Tr, to Shoal Pond Tr. (Part of a lollipop shaped route from Lincoln Woods.)

The steep spot that I was referring to was on the TFT with the falls proper out of sight to the left (N). Shortly before the stream crossing before the EPT. Rocks and/or vegetation on both sides so I had to point my skis straight uphill and pull on some of the vegetation. Fortunately this spot was only a ski length or so long.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

On the occasions that I have skied down Thoreau Falls trail. I usually continue along the Ethan Pond trail to the bridge, cross, then turn right and a short "thin" bushwhack brings you out a bit of the way down the T Falls trail. This eliminates the sometimes dicey crossing of the river above the falls. This is also a good springtime option in times of very high water. I almost lost one of my Labs crossing one wet spring. He was nearly swept over the falls. A quick collar grab kept him from going over.

Somebody, perhaps you, posted this bypass a while ago. Worth remembering in case the stream crossing is difficult. (Fortunately, the crossing has always been easy when I was there--either a good snow bridge or low water.)

Thanks,

Doug

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

We have skied through Zealand Notch on our one-day Pemi traverse every winter since 1985 and have never seen any evidence for avalanches. Perhaps during the winter of 1968/1969?

 

[Mattl]

I think the slope is too steep and short for avalanches. This is more of an ice buildup area because of the sun hitting it and constantly freezing and thawing. I would worry about icefall too. By the way the actual Zealand Valley or notch is one of my favorites -Matt L

 

[dave.m]

We have skied through Zealand Notch on our one-day Pemi traverse every winter since 1985 and have never seen any evidence for avalanches. Perhaps during the winter of 1968/1969?

This is very, very helpful.

Thanks!

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

I would not worry about ice fall either, as we have not seen any evidence of large fallen blocks of ice on the old rail grade similar to what comes down from the Tuckerman Ravine headwall every spring. The large blocks of rock that are obstacles in places on the rail grade trail probably came down in the large fires early in the last century, after timber baron rapist J.R. Henry left the area. I think that the size of the blocks on the talus slope stabilize the slope in winter, but if we were to have another 1968/69-type snowpack, perhaps these talus blocks would be buried, making the slope avalanche prone. All this said, there are lots of other places in the Whites where one can get avalanched, even with minimal snowpacks.

 

[DougPaul]

We have skied through Zealand Notch on our one-day Pemi traverse every winter since 1985 and have never seen any evidence for avalanches. Perhaps during the winter of 1968/1969?

Good to know that they aren't very common.

I wonder if there are Zealand Hut logs which might note such events.

However, the slope above the junction with Zeacliff Tr is 45 deg (steepest section, from the topo). And I have been there when the rail cut is filled in and it is just one smooth slope from top to bottom. There must have been sluffs during snowfall and, in theory, full-sized avalanches should be possible.

Doug

 

[el-bagr]

However, the slope above the junction with Zeacliff Tr is 45 deg (steepest section, from the topo). And I have been there when the rail cut is filled in and it is just one smooth slope from top to bottom. There must have been sluffs during snowfall and, in theory, full-sized avalanches should be possible.

Doug

Over at ttips, I noted that I got 45 deg for the semi-standard Whitewall scramble route main gully, slightly steeper (48 deg) farther south. Note that the farther south you go, the more vert is taken up by actual cliffs. A picture was posted that shows snow conditions largely as I remember them from my trips (not my pic; haven't been in there in winter since the digicam revolution). Definite rocks poking through, though there are some expansive rock-free areas.

 

[bryan]

i worked out at zealand falls this spring and never heard anything about avalanche danger related to whitewall from the winter caretaker (who got out a lot) or any hut related literature. i'm still learning about those things myself. the traverse of the slope can be difficult due to the angle if the snow really packs in. gorgeous spot though.
had my own scary whitewall experience this spring trying to climb the slide that i won't go into......

bryan