Some pix from Baxter

[Neil]

Holy smokes!
My pictures don't look anything like yours Darren. The colours! Even on a computer screen they are so...deep!
Besides your skill and artistry how come my point and shoot digicam dosn't do the same job? I'm serious. How come?

 

[David Metsky]

Holy smokes!
My pictures don't look anything like yours Darren. The colours! Even on a computer screen they are so...deep!
Besides your skill and artistry how come my point and shoot digicam dosn't do the same job? I'm serious. How come?

He shoots with an SLR in raw mode, then "processes" the images in the computer. Once you go raw, you'll never go back. It's a whole different ball game.

-dave-

 

[Tom Rankin]

He shoots with an SLR in raw mode, then "processes" the images in the computer. Once you go raw, you'll never go back. It's a whole different ball game. -dave-

Darren, what camera do you use? I have a Canon Digital Rebel. Maybe I should try going raw. I have a 1 Gig CF Memory card, I'll have to see how big the pics are, and how many will fit. I rarely fill up the card on a trip, most of the images are 2-3 Meg each now.

 

[Neil]

What the hell is "raw"?

 

[MichaelJ]

Neil,

Raw means that all that is stored on the card is the actual digital data that the sensor saw. It must then be processed to create an image, based on the hardware parameters of the sensor. This can be done in the camera in JPG mode, or later on the computer in RAW mode.

One huge advantage that RAW gives you is that white balance is not determined until processing. Therefore, it is trivial to correct that bluish-green shot in the woods to bring back the lost reds. When in JPG mode you would have had to pick a WB setting, like "Daylight" or "Shade" and just hope for the best.

The other advantage is that JPG is a lossy format - there are antialiasing and artifacts on the color boundaries in any JPG image. If you want to correct colors, rotate, adjust the sharpness, etc. you will get a much higher quality result by doing so on the RAW data or on a non-lossy format, like a TIFF, created from the RAW data.

Tom,
I shoot in RAW with a Rebel, though you can't tell from my ADK BBQ pics because I only posted the embedded JPG images so far (Canon embeds a medium-size, medium quality JPG when shooting RAW). The total runs about 6MB a picture - I could get 67 on a 512MB card. I now carry 2 1GB cards and keep the 512MB in the bag, and have never even filled the 2GB's. Although the files are large, you never have to do white balance bracketing, and you can even adjust exposure about 1/2 step in either direction at postprocessing time, limiting how often you need to do exposure bracketing and making for fewer shots overall.

My Killington pics were all in RAW as well. In particular, note how just doing a white balance correction while postprocessing the RAW data made this image rich and colorful, instead of a washed-out bluish-grey-green that you'd otherwise get with auto white balance.

 

[darren]

Holy smokes!
My pictures don't look anything like yours Darren. The colours! Even on a computer screen they are so...deep!
Besides your skill and artistry how come my point and shoot digicam dosn't do the same job? I'm serious. How come?

Beyond artistic talent ( ) I can say there are two major reasons. One is that I shoot in RAW mode as opposed to the .jpg mode that point and shoot (P&S) cameras shoot in. As explained by MJ, by shooting in RAW mode, the raw data of the picture get saved. Beyond the basics, the camera does not make decisions, it just saves the data. With a P&S camera, the camera makes decisions on stuff like white balance, exposure, color saturation, color balance, and image sharpening. It applies all of those processes to the image and then stores a lossy compressed version (.jpg) of the resulting data. By shooting in RAW, I have all of the original data and I get to chose how I want the picture to look. It is just like working in a darkroom with traditional film. Working in the digital darkroom (Photoshop) takes considerable time so you better be interested in photography if you want to deal with tweaking every image.

The other issue is the camera and lens itself. I carry a big bulky digital SLR and big bulky lenses. They have a better image sensor and better optics than a P&S camera. They have the capability to take a better picture than a P&S camera. I say capability, because while the camera takes a picture, the photographer makes the picture. Galen Rowell (RIP) could take your P&S camera and take better pictures than I can with my DSLR and big lens.

As an aside, during my recent art show, I was approached by two different people that asked me if I give photography lessons. I took that as a compliment. At first I thought that it would actually be really cool and I almost jumped at it but then I realized that I really just do not have the time.

But then maybe we could have a VFTT photography group...now that could be cool. yah....like I really have the time to set up another forum....

- darren

 

[dr_wu002]

The other issue is the camera and lens itself. I carry a big bulky digital SLR and big bulky lenses. They have a better image sensor and better optics than a P&S camera. They have the capability to take a better picture than a P&S camera. I say capability, because while the camera takes a picture, the photographer makes the picture. Galen Rowell (RIP) could take your P&S camera and take better pictures than I can with my DSLR and big lens.

FWIW, I have a little Canon A510 or A520 (Can't remember) which is a cheap, nothing little thing. However, it has manual overrides for everything... White Balance, Color Saturation etc. and also you have control over F-Stop, shutter speed etc. It took me a little while to get used to this (read some books) but once you do you never ever ever go back to Point and Shoot.

I'll have my pics up soon enough (they're up... I just haven't been able to 'label' them). Darren's are much nicer! But I'm a newbie at photography & still using a crappy camera.

A photography forum!?

-Dr. Wu

 

[Neil]

It looks like I'll always be a P&S man. (sigh)

 

[darren]

Darren, what camera do you use? I have a Canon Digital Rebel. Maybe I should try going raw. I have a 1 Gig CF Memory card, I'll have to see how big the pics are, and how many will fit. I rarely fill up the card on a trip, most of the images are 2-3 Meg each now.

I have the Canon 20D. If you are worired about filling up the card, you can shoot in .jpg mode for snapshots and then when you see a scene that you want to be sure you get a good shot of, switch to RAW mode.

One thing about RAW mode. Your pictures will look like crap out of the camera. The color will be flat and they will not look sharp. You have to tweak them up yourself and that tweaking takes a while to learn in Photoshop.

Once you learn it though, as Dave said (and I think he got that quote from me), once you go RAW you will never go back.

- darren

 

[MichaelJ]

One thing about RAW mode. Your pictures will look like crap out of the camera. The color will be flat and they will not look sharp. You have to tweak them up yourself and that tweaking takes a while to learn in Photoshop.

A beginner can do a very fine job using Canon's bundled software to process the images. It has the same settings that you could pick on the Rebel itself (when using JPG mode) and you can preview all the different possibilities. It's not nearly as powerful as Photoshop reading the RAW directly, but you can get a good start and then dump a TIFF into Photoshop or your graphic editor of choice to do any final postprocessing, touch-ups, rotation (I cannot shoot a level horizon), etc.

 

[darren]

It looks like I'll always be a P&S man. (sigh)

You can be anything you want to be. No need to limit yourself. But it does take commitment. You have to carry a heavy camera and then spend time tweaking images. So, it all boils down to what you want. If you want ot take pictures to document a moment in time so you can remember hikes later, then a P&S will serve you very well. If you are into photography for the art of it, then depending on your interest level you can find your self falling down the slippery slope of weight, cost, and time.

- darren

 

[Tom Rankin]

You can be anything you want to be. No need to limit yourself. But it does take commitment. You have to carry a heavy camera and then spend time tweaking images. So, it all boils down to what you want. If you want ot take pictures to document a moment in time so you can remember hikes later, then a P&S will serve you very well. If you are into photography for the art of it, then depending on your interest level you can find your self falling down the slippery slope of weight, cost, and time.

- darren

Turns out my camera (Canon Digital Rebel) does not have RAW mode! Dang! Unless I'm missing a firmware upgrade...

 

[bobandgeri]

you can find your self falling down the slippery slope of weight, cost, and time. - darren

Tell me about it - I just picked up the Nikon 70- 200 F2.8 with VR - and a 1.4 TC. What a lens - I put the TC on and could take a hand held shot zoomed in all the way! We're headed away on vacation Sat - can't wait to try it out for real. Might even have to start playing in RAW mode.

 

[darren]

Tell me about it - I just picked up the Nikon 70- 200 F2.8 with VR - and a 1.4 TC. What a lens - I put the TC on and could take a hand held shot zoomed in all the way! We're headed away on vacation Sat - can't wait to try it out for real. Might even have to start playing in RAW mode.

With a lens like that, you better start shooting in RAW mode or I am going to have to go over there and take it away from you!!!

- darren

 

[darren]

Turns out my camera (Canon Digital Rebel) does not have RAW mode! Dang! Unless I'm missing a firmware upgrade...

Yes it does! I am like 99.9% sure of it. You shouldn't need a firmware upgrade either. Go to the menu and go to where you select image size/quality (large, medium, small, fine, super fine etc) and one of the picks should be RAW. You should also be able to shoot RAW and an embedded .jpg at the same time. It's a good way to test if you want to shoot RAW but at the same time you will still have your .jpg files too.

MJ - you have the rebel, right? Can you help him out?

-darren

 

[MichaelJ]

The Canon Digital Rebel (300D) has RAW mode. However, you can only shoot in RAW in the P, Av, Tv, or full Manual modes. Set to one of these modes then hit the Menu button, and you'll see RAW listed under the Quality menu.

What comes out will be a RAW file with a medium-size, medium-quality JPG embedded. If you use the Canon software (File Viewer) you can either "Convert and save in file" to actually process the RAW image using the settings specified into a JPG or TIFF, or you can "Extract and save JPEG" which is 1000 times faster but obviously of much reduced quality.

I find that when doing color correction, the JPG is great to use as a reference for where you started, since it shows what the camera would have given you as an end result had you not shot in RAW mode.

 

[jjo]

Nice report and pics!!! Thanks!!

 

[arghman]

nice pictures!

a different question for any of you that went: what did you end up doing for overall logistics (lodging, etc.)? did all the hikes work out well? anything you would definitely recommend / not recommend? Am thinking about a Baxter trip next June (? tough call between bugs & flora) specifically to hike/explore ridge between Baxter Pk and Hamlin.

 

[Carmel]

Of all the mountains i've seen in the northeast, I found katahdin to be the most dramatic and I would go again in a heartbeat! the only real problem is the LONG LONG LONG drive and the reservations. It just isn't possible to drive that far very often...and it doesn't help that gas is $97 a gallon!

Baxter has A LOT of rules so be prepared for that. Even once you are in the park you can't just drive to any trailhead and go hiking, because they limit the number of cars at each trailhead. We wanted to do the knife edge, however, in order to do the route that we wanted, we would have had to woken up at 4AM...As far as i'm concerned when i'm on vacation I want to relax and come and go as I please...without having to "beat" people to the trailhead. You may instead plan your camp site accordingly if there is space available if there is something you REALLY want to do.

I also realized when we were at the top of katahdin how it could be a VERY good thing that the rules force people to start hiking that early in the morning...Many of the people that were at the top seemed to be innapropriately prepared (i.e. a LOT of cotton...)...and may not be able to appropriately judge how long it takes to complete their hike. I could see people starting late, and trying to come down in the dark without headlamps, etc...

If you go to baxter in june, I would recommend getting a tent site and NOT a lean-to for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would have to say I really enjoyed the Abol slide the most!!! scrambling up the abol slide (trying to catch Laure) was heeps of fun!!!!!

As far as what hikes to do...I would say do whatever you want (definitely do katahdin obviously...). I'm sure all the hikes are great!!

 

[sli74]

My first trip to Baxter was in June, LOTS of bugs so keep that in mind. I found the early Sept time frame of this trip to be much better. In addition to what Carmel said, I just have to add, get your reservations in EARLY and read the rules, there are a lot of them. Also the gate closes sometime between 8-10 pm so plan to get there before so you can check-in.

sli74