Specific Questions On Goggles For Winter Hiking

[DayTrip]

I've been hiking in my older ski goggles for years now (haven't done much winter hiking until recently) and I really do not like the pair I currently have so I've been searching for a better option. I will be spending significant amounts of time above treeline this year and don't think my current pair will perform very well. Curious everyone's opinion on the below particulars. Most of the previous threads I pulled up on VFTT are pretty old.

1)Wide field of vision. Goggle design appears to have changed a lot over the past few years with every brand advertising the widest peripheral vision. I've read that a larger goggle can be less likely to fog (which is a major issue with my current pair). Also, I have trouble looking DOWN with my current pair to grab at buckles, change traction options, etc. The frame gets in the way and with multiple layers of clothing my chin bottoms out on my chest sooner, restricting how far I can cock my head to see down. So I want a bigger lense. Anyone feel one brand is better than the other for widest range of vision, particularly looking down? I'm wondering if single lens googles would be thinner and thus allow for easier viewing down but then there is the fogging trade off. The fogging and looking down problem are probably my two biggest concerns right now. Two weeks ago I did Lowes Path and had a lot of issues seeing while switching from spikes to crampons and eventually had to take my goggles off to see what I was doing. And of course the goggles then fogged up.

2)Photochromic lenses. The idea of one lens handling all of the lighting conditions seems like a huge plus for hiking with the variable conditions. Never used this type of lens before in optics though. Does it work as advertised? They are generally significantly more expensive and I seem to remember reading something about them not working as well in cold weather. True?

3)Stores With Best Selection To Try On. I've been researching models on Backcountry.com, which has a massive selection, but I really would prefer to try them on first. Can anyone recommend a well stocked retailer, ski shop, etc in the Worcester MA, Providence RI or North Conway, NH area? There used to be a little shop in downtown North Conway (forgot the name - got my last pair there) with a pretty good selection. I would likely be shopping near my house in CT/RI though.

4)Dual lenses. I've read all the prior posts about cat crap and various anti-fogging strategies. Do dual lenses really not fog/fog much less often? Sounds like most goggles now have an anti-fog coating already so cat-crap and other products would not be needed? Are there any other design features that would help minimize fogging? (And I've already read numerous articles about techniques/tips to prevent fogging. I'm looking specifically for product design features here like the style of venting, etc).

Appreciate the feedback as always.

 

[DougPaul]

4)Dual lenses. I've read all the prior posts about cat crap and various anti-fogging strategies. Do dual lenses really not fog/fog much less often? Sounds like most goggles now have an anti-fog coating already so cat-crap and other products would not be needed? Are there any other design features that would help minimize fogging? (And I've already read numerous articles about techniques/tips to prevent fogging. I'm looking specifically for product design features here like the style of venting, etc).

Fogging and icing are perennial problems...

* Double pane lenses help. (Nothing is completely foolproof except taking them off...)
* Good ventilation helps too.

It is even harder if you wear glasses--the fit is more difficult and you have 3 surfaces to fog and ice.

Doug

 

[Tom Rankin]

Wow, I never knew goggles were so complex! I spent a lot of time above tree line last winter, with just a cheap pair of goggles. Granted they fogged and iced a little, but they got the job done.

 

[erugs]

There are goggles made especially to fit over glasses.

 

[KPMMBM]

I've had good luck with a Nikon product for anti-fogging. Re-usable wipes that are made for camera lenses but has worked well on my goggles

 

[dave.m]

Double panes definitely fog less than single panes.

No goggle with avoid fogging if you put them up your hot, sweaty forehead.

Need to consider goggles along with your head gear and face mask. Worst combination I've found is full-on conditions while moving up wind. Windproof full coverage face mask is needed to avoid frost bite but when exhaling, its very likely to flash freeze up the goggles. If somebody can suggest a face mask/goggle combination that avoids this, please let me know.

Smith used to make goggles with battery operated fans. I was a skeptic but numerous people I trust not to be total wack-jobs have sworn on their mother's grave that they worked better than advertised.

If you can't find photochromatic lenses, might look at amber colored lenses. I've had better luck pushing them in low light situations (still milking a pair of Bolle Irex 100 lenses for all they're worth plus some).

 

[JCarter]

I don't have any photochromatic goggles, but I do usually wear photochromatic prescription glasses. They MOST DEFINITELY have issues in the cold, which is one reason that I always cough up for 2 pairs of glasses every time my prescription changes: one photochromatic, one clear.

It's a chemistry thing that makes them change, and in the extreme cold, the chemistry becomes very, very slow. So you're out hiking in the bright sun, and hit treeline or a cloud blows over, and you're suddenly blind. The dark-to-light transition seems to be affected more than the light-to-dark, but that could just be the fact that you can see better with too much light than too little. In normal conditions, the transition is fast, but at 10F it might be 5 or 10 minutes before you can see again. There have been times where it was better to put them in my pocket temporarily and be out-of-focus blind instead of in-the-dark blind. And I'm pretty darn impaired. I frequently just wear the clear specs when hiking in the winter, since most of my goggles are at least partially tinted.

And the selection of Over The Glasses (OTG) goggles is considerably more restricted than for the non-impaired. You go into the ski shop, and there's this huge rack of goggles from multiple manufacturers... but then you realize that "oh, This One is the OTG goggles". Online selection is probably better, if you know what you want.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I have had good success with careful layering of goggles, mask and balaclava. Mainly you want the goggle to seal tightly against the mask against your face such that your hot moist breath cannot find its way inside your goggles. Secondarily I have learned to breath out and down either nose or mouth. Finally as Dave suggests, do not put them on your moist hot sweaty head. Stow them in something breathable and away from body heat or of you must you can slide them up your arm if wearing a good hardshell.

These items admittedly are outside the scope of your very specific questions.

Tim

 

[cushetunk]

Daytrip, here's my thoughts - apologies if you know this already. Since you say you are a relatively new winter hiker, keep in mind that if conditions are so bad that you truly need goggles, the weather is probably severe enough that a small mistake could kill you. (By small mistake, I mean something like dropping your mitten and it blows away.) So these are conditions that you may be making an effort to avoid.

I find that I use goggles only in conditions when it is essential to cover all exposed skin. Otherwise, I find light-tinted sunglasses are better and can be angled on your face to allow air flow that prevents fogging.

Buy goggles with big top vents. You might want to buy over-the-glasses goggles even if you don't wear glasses, because the extra space could help. Do not wear goggles and pull a fleece neckwarmer or balaclava up over your nose/mouth. It forces your breath up into the goggles, and fogs like crazy. Buy a neoprene facemask and cut out a hole for your mouth. This helps get your breath away from your face. As dave.m points out, exhale downwind so again your breath is carried away. Do not wear too many layers, because when you sweat all your heat and moisture will rise up your neck and... yep, into your goggles. This last one is hard because once you are above treeline and can't expose skin, you can't really fiddle with layers. So being dialed into your layers will help.

Make sure you get a good lens color, preferably mirrored, because it looks better in photos.

Least important is which modern goggle you buy. But here's my suggestion: http://www.backcountry.com/smith-prophecy-goggle

 

[bikehikeskifish]

One other little tidbit... IF you can pick the direction of travel such that the prevailing wind is at your back (prevailing winter winds in the Whites are generally northwest) then you may be able to avoid goggles. I've done this successfully going from Monroe-Pierce as well as Lafayette-Flume. Going the other way, goggles would be required, but I could get away with sun glasses...

Tim

 

[DayTrip]

I have had good success with careful layering of goggles, mask and balaclava. Mainly you want the goggle to seal tightly against the mask against your face such that your hot moist breath cannot find its way inside your goggles.

Tim

When you say "careful layering" can you elaborate on that? Do you get a balaclava long enough to tuck inside innermost layers so moisture leaving outer layers/shell does not escape up balaclava into goggles? I also find when the conditions are that chilly that zipping the shell all the way to provide neck protection pretty much guarantees moisture goes straight up into the goggles. (I usually try to tuck my face into the collar of the shell before caving in and using the goggles/balaclava. I've tried sunglasses too but haven't had much better luck with the fogging.

I recently watched an AMC video going over this very topic and he recommended a balaclava that left face exposed and added a face mask to that. Is there any benefit to that or is it just personal preference? I have always used a "combo" type with the mask integrated into the balaclava so one item covered everything.

I also seem to remember reading an old thread on this topic that suggested taping the lower vents on goggles to prevent moisture from rising up through the bottom vents. Anyone ever try that? Did it work? Why do they even have bottom vents if all it does is allow moisture to enter and fog the goggles.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

The balaclava over your nose and mouth will almost certainly cause moisture to go straight up to the goggles. I wear a balaclava with a separate face mask, but only if necessary. The trick is to make sure that the foam around the goggles makes a seal against the balaclava and/or face mask - so no moisture can get inside. Outside moisture is less likely to form, unless you breathe "up" and are walking into the wind (as Dave M points out above). Make a seal - skin against balaclava (no gaps) or mask, and goggles against balaclava or mask (no gaps).

This is about as layered up as I ever get. The face mask has a bridge covering the nose, but the nostrils are not obstructed. Plus there are holes in the part which covers the mouth. Really cinch that strap so that it holds the goggles tight. Note that my hood has an elastic in the back which keeps it form-fitting around my head, rather than forming a tunnel in front of my face (it will if I let it) - the tunnel doesn't clear your breath as fast and can lead to icing (not the two red lines version )

I have tried a handful of goggles over the years and I now use the Native ones which are relatively high-volume, and come with two lenses for different light.

ETA - I know from winter cycling that I will quickly fog my sunglasses in the AM if I stop at a red light - unless I am paying enough attention to breath down. They quickly clear once I am moving, however.

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

Experiment in front of a mirror in a nice warm room Any exposed skin is as risk for frostbite. Then make sure you can put it on while wearing gloves or mittens without the aid of the mirror.

Only tests out in the cold will show whether it will fog or not.

Doug

 

[MichaelJ]

Smith does indeed make goggles with tiny fans *and* photochromatic lenses, in both regular and over-the-glasses form factors. I have no experience with them.

When skiing, a good helmet will have a vent intake just over the goggles. This allows air to flow up through the goggles, keeping the lenses clear, then out the top of the goggles and through the helmet. Often the problem hikers will have is that they block the top of the goggles with their hat or balaclava. Make sure both top and bottom of the goggles are clear to allow air to ventilate.

Also, make sure that the arrangement of your balaclava or neck gaiter is such that your breathing is not directed up into the goggles.

 

[hikerbrian]

1. Wide field of vision is important when skiing, not so much when hiking.
2. Photo chromatic lenses are very slow when it's cold.
3. Stores? Dunno.
4. Dual lenses help a lot to prevent fogging.

If I can, I wear sunglasses since they fog less. If it's really gnarly out, I wear a balaclava with a hole cut out in the mouth and only breath through my mouth, and I wear a neoprene mask over that, again with a hole cut out at the mouth. The underside of my nose got frost nip last year when I neglected the under side of my nose. For goggles, I use cheapos, Smith Cascade Classics, maybe $30, and I treat them with Smith anti fog wipes. I've had quite good luck with them so far. Also, I bring 2 pairs so when they fog I have a backup pair. And they're probably going to fog no matter how much money you spend on them, and you're going to shove them in the top of your pack, so might as well not spend too much money on them.

 

[TJsName]

Does anyone here use something like this: http://coldavenger.com/technical-performance/?

 

[sierra]

Does anyone here use something like this: http://coldavenger.com/technical-performance/?

Looks a little contrived for me, although the principle is sound. I find when I first start out on a very cold day, the cold air is not good for my lungs at all. I have a Balacava that has a great vented screen for my mouth and nose. Using this screen allows the air to be warmed as it mixes with my exhales, this really helps preserve my lungs from that artic cold air.

 

[surf88]

I prefer the pink tinted Goggles over the yellow tinted for enhancing terrain in flat light.

 

[jniehof]

Does anyone here use something like this: http://coldavenger.com/technical-performance/?

I have a Psolar Balaclava. Getting enough air through it is something of a challenge and the whole thing is pretty warm. I'd only wear it on quite cold days (never above 5). Slightly warmer I breathe through a SmartWool neck gaiter; above about 20 a Buff is pretty good.

I have exercise-triggered asthma, which was probably a factor in NH but only became obvious enough for diagnosis in the drier climate of the southwest. I won't breathe the air directly for any temperature below 40.

 

[nartreb]

The thing about goggles is that you don't need them unless it's windy. In those conditions, adequate ventilation is not really difficult if you follow Tim's advice (basically, the goggles are the outermost layer and not directly touching your skin, keep the vents clear, direct your breath away from the goggles) and don't overheat. Keep your goggles in your pack at all other times. Ideally you'd keep them slightly warm, but it's more important to keep them away from your damp, sweaty body. (Do NOT rest them on top of your sweaty hair!)

Not much you can do about freezing rain or snow; various anti-fogging salves may help slightly. Consider carrying a spare; once they ice over, de-icing them is really difficult. As others have said, roomier goggles are generally better, and a double pane does help. I'm not aware of any goggles that have both good ventilation and really good downward visibility; this is one of those cases where you just have to tilt your chin farther if you need to see your jacket (and hold your breath!).