Staking A Tent In The Snow

[DayTrip]

Been reading up a bit on a setting up a tent in snow and staking it down reliably seems to be a common issue. There are a variety of stakes out there for the job, from the normal tent stakes, "blizzard" stakes like MSR's that work like a snow picket, snow bags, big trowel shaped stakes, loose sticks, etc. Does anyone have a preference for a stake in snow? Based on my prior thread about tents I will likely be setting up in fairly deep snow near treeline and likely not have access to loose sticks on the ground or trees for anchors. And I'll have a freestanding tent so staking will largely be for tensioning the fly in wind and snow loading. Secondarily, I'm wondering how much of a pain it is to "unfreeze" or remove the stakes in sintered/solid snow the following day and if there are any tricks for that or you just drag 8-10 bowling ball sized blocks of ice down the trail with you in the morning.

I'm thinking the bags make the most sense for me in terms of function and weight but I've never done it so "I don't know what I don't know". Any advice on stakes, or other snow set up suggestions, would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jfb]

SMC snow stakes. Short piece of 1/8 in. shock cord between tent and guy line. Loop at end of guy line. Pack snow and wait at least 15 minutes before setting up tent. Convex side of stake facing tent. Thread guy line through second big hole from top of stake and put loop over top. While stretching shock cord slightly, push stake into snow with 90 degree angle between guy line and stake. Stake will freeze in place overnight. To release, step on top of stake and pull up on guy line.

 

[DayTrip]

SMC snow stakes. Short piece of 1/8 in. shock cord between tent and guy line. Loop at end of guy line. Pack snow and wait at least 15 minutes before setting up tent. Convex side of stake facing tent. Thread guy line through second big hole from top of stake and put loop over top. While stretching shock cord slightly, push stake into snow with 90 degree angle between guy line and stake. Stake will freeze in place overnight. To release, step on top of stake and pull up on guy line.

I know this isn't the stake you mentioned but is this video more or less what you are describing : https://youtu.be/DXb2qLvtVx8 ? i.e. you loop over the top of the stake and through hole with a "leader" so the guy line is pulling on the loop from ground level/just below ground level?

 

[DayTrip]

SMC snow stakes. Short piece of 1/8 in. shock cord between tent and guy line. Loop at end of guy line. Pack snow and wait at least 15 minutes before setting up tent. Convex side of stake facing tent. Thread guy line through second big hole from top of stake and put loop over top. While stretching shock cord slightly, push stake into snow with 90 degree angle between guy line and stake. Stake will freeze in place overnight. To release, step on top of stake and pull up on guy line.

I am also noticing on those SMC type stakes that they range in size from around 8-11". Is it better to get the longer ones for the added leverage?

 

[jfb]

I know this isn't the stake you mentioned but is this video more or less what you are describing : https://youtu.be/DXb2qLvtVx8 ? i.e. you loop over the top of the stake and through hole with a "leader" so the guy line is pulling on the loop from ground level/just below ground level?

That video is pretty much what I do, but using SMC stakes. You want to pull from a few inches below the snow surface. I don't use a leader, just the guy line.

 

[jfb]

I am also noticing on those SMC type stakes that they range in size from around 8-11". Is it better to get the longer ones for the added leverage?

My stakes are about 9 inches long and they work fine if the snow is deep enough.

 

[DayTrip]

Excellent! That looks like a good set up. Thanks for the help.

 

[Brambor]

I got these in two different lengths ... not because I think they are the best but just because I got them They work fine enough. I don't enjoy getting on my knees and digging them out in the morning but it's better than not going anyhere

 

[TCD]

A lot of your choice in the system to use will depend on the snow conditions. Big difference between 6" of dry fluff and a thick pack of frozen slush. You will need to be flexible to use different tools and techniques depending on conditions.

 

[DayTrip]

A lot of your choice in the system to use will depend on the snow conditions. Big difference between 6" of dry fluff and a thick pack of frozen slush. You will need to be flexible to use different tools and techniques depending on conditions.

A good point. I often wondered what extreme mountaineers do to pitch tents in the extreme places they do. I assume they don't carry any sort of dead blow hammer or similar tool because of the weight penalty to hammer stakes into the ice or is there a hammering end to an ice axe maybe? Are normal tent stakes (the triangular MSR type that seems so popular) capable of being hammered into snow like that or is yet another type of stake required?

 

[JoshandBaron]

Not really applicable to your use case but I always use sticks and just leave them buried when I'm done. It uses more line but it saves me from replacing stakes. There are more than a few of my stakes out there that froze in during icing events that I couldn't free with my avy shovel.

 

[nartreb]

For solid ice, you use an ice screw (but don't set your tent on hard ice - it's cold, uncomfortably hard, and rather dangerous - you don't want to be wearing crampons inside the tent!). For cracks in rock, you use various forms of chock or cam. For snow, you use snow pickets or flukes or buried anchors.

Technical ice axes are often sold in pairs. Traditionally one is equipped with an adze (for digging: cutting steps in hard-packed snow, leveling a tent platform, or just making a cat-hole), and the other is equipped with a hammer (for pitons or snow stakes). You certainly can hammer on an MSR Groundhog (gently, they're decently strong as tent stakes go but they're not designed for hammering into anything too solid). If you don't have a hammer, turn your ice axe sideways, or use the heel of your boot. That won't help much in snow and ice, though. First off, hammering anything into solid ice is a losing proposition. Either the stake will break, or the ice will. For snow, no matter how well-packed (and ice too), there's the problem of deformation. If you maintain steady pressure, the snow will very slowly melt and give way. The narrower the stake, the higher the pressure, and the worse the problem. So you need an extra-large stake (or other object with a big cross-section) to distribute the tension over enough area to keep the pressure low enough. That's also why you want to tie a snow stake near the middle, not the top. You don't want the stake acting like a lever.

 

[DayTrip]

For solid ice, you use an ice screw (but don't set your tent on hard ice - it's cold, uncomfortably hard, and rather dangerous - you don't want to be wearing crampons inside the tent!). For cracks in rock, you use various forms of chock or cam. For snow, you use snow pickets or flukes or buried anchors.

Technical ice axes are often sold in pairs. Traditionally one is equipped with an adze (for digging: cutting steps in hard-packed snow, leveling a tent platform, or just making a cat-hole), and the other is equipped with a hammer (for pitons or snow stakes). You certainly can hammer on an MSR Groundhog (gently, they're decently strong as tent stakes go but they're not designed for hammering into anything too solid). If you don't have a hammer, turn your ice axe sideways, or use the heel of your boot. That won't help much in snow and ice, though. First off, hammering anything into solid ice is a losing proposition. Either the stake will break, or the ice will. For snow, no matter how well-packed (and ice too), there's the problem of deformation. If you maintain steady pressure, the snow will very slowly melt and give way. The narrower the stake, the higher the pressure, and the worse the problem. So you need an extra-large stake (or other object with a big cross-section) to distribute the tension over enough area to keep the pressure low enough. That's also why you want to tie a snow stake near the middle, not the top. You don't want the stake acting like a lever.

Thanks. Good info. Whenever I see videos about mountaineering the tents have always been set up so I never saw exactly how they were making camp.

 

[skiguy]

In addition to stakes it is a good idea to have plenty of cordage along. Depending where you are pitching your tent many times you can get creative with already natural residing objects. Existing trees, boulders and rocks can make for good anchors. Be sure to get out in your backyard and play around with your system before hitting the trail.

 

[dave.m]

I almost never use stakes in the winter.

If I'm using a tent, I'm well below treeline.

I find and bury deadfall branches. I loop a long cord around the stick, stamp down snow on top of it to work harden and then secure and tension the working end of the line using a truckers hitch.

The truckers hitch secures with a slip knot so it unties easily. Then I just pull the cord out, leaving the deadfall buried in the snow till spring.

Andrew Sk???a from Sierra Design has a good You Tube video on tying the truckers hitch. It's a very useful knot for tarps and tent tie outs.

 

[skiguy]

I almost never use stakes in the winter.

If I'm using a tent, I'm well below treeline.

I find and bury deadfall branches. I loop a long cord around the stick, stamp down snow on top of it to work harden and then secure and tension the working end of the line using a truckers hitch.

The truckers hitch secures with a slip knot so it unties easily. Then I just pull the cord out, leaving the deadfall buried in the snow till spring.

Andrew Sk???a from Sierra Design has a good You Tube video on tying the truckers hitch. It's a very useful knot for tarps and tent tie outs.

Great advice!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W86XNUmElP4

 

[dave.m]

Yup.

Here's the video I was thinking of. (now that I'm back at my console ;^)

https://youtu.be/slOhlEmBwwY

 

[DayTrip]

I almost never use stakes in the winter.

If I'm using a tent, I'm well below treeline.

I find and bury deadfall branches. I loop a long cord around the stick, stamp down snow on top of it to work harden and then secure and tension the working end of the line using a truckers hitch.

The truckers hitch secures with a slip knot so it unties easily. Then I just pull the cord out, leaving the deadfall buried in the snow till spring.

Andrew Sk???a from Sierra Design has a good You Tube video on tying the truckers hitch. It's a very useful knot for tarps and tent tie outs.

Yes someone shared that video here for me in another post a few years ago (maybe you )and that is pretty much how I set up just about everything now. Quick and easy even for a "knot challenged" guy like myself. And I get the logic of branches for a deadman anchor. However this post is kind of a derivative question to another post I had where I indicated I'd be camping near treeline where decent sticks to use would likely not be available. Otherwise great advice and that is what I would do.

 

[expat]

I've always used my ski poles, and snowshoes just set into the snow at an angle, just like a stake. As others said, wait a few minutes after setting them before attaching the guy lines.

They're easy to tie off to, and easy to remove when breaking camp. If I need more than those, then I'll use buried sticks, as others have mentioned.

 

[jniehof]

I use the MSR blizzard stake (actually I have a mixed set of like three different brands). I tie pcord to the stakeout point on the tent, then loop it through two of the holes in the stake and connect up with a tautline hitch. Do this all before leaving home. When setting camp, I bury the stakes as deadmans and tighten up the line to suit, then stamp down the smow. Dig out in the morning, knock the snow off; it usually doesn't stick on too firmly.