State to study Mt Washington Summit Capacity

[peakbagger]

https://www.conwaydailysun.com/news...cle_15ec12d4-8b6f-11e8-92e2-3bf94ddcf750.html

Nothing new, later on in the article the animosity between the autoroad and cog is revisited.

Studies are easy, coming up with a solution is not unless they sell slots to the highest bidder.

 

[NHClimber]

Not sure what they can do about it. Not like BXP in terms of access control.

 

[CaptCaper]

I don't see it as a problem at all.. I was there July 4th this year.. a great great summer day up there.. it was nothing out of the ordinary and no issues at all. State has nothing better to do and the Auto road is jealous for sure.. they should of spent some energy making a better looking hotel on rt 16 then the one they did.. it looks like a cheap Hampton Inn. Sad.. At least Presby has a lot of class and would of done it much better.
Most of the time the mountain is quiet.. so it gets busy a couple of months on the weekend or holidays.. what else is new any where in New England like that. I'm glad these people can go up there and enjoy that rock pile.. other wise it would be wasting away by itself. Better to have them there then scattered over all the other peaks.. I did Craig,Bald Face N and S... saw a few people all day.. let's keep them on Lafayette and Washington.

 

[skiguy]

I don't see it as a problem at all.. I was there July 4th this year.. a great great summer day up there.. it was nothing out of the ordinary and no issues at all. State has nothing better to do and the Auto road is jealous for sure.. they should of spent some energy making a better looking hotel on rt 16 then the one they did.. it looks like a cheap Hampton Inn. Sad.. At least Presby has a lot of class and would of done it much better.
Most of the time the mountain is quiet.. so it gets busy a couple of months on the weekend or holidays.. what else is new any where in New England like that. I'm glad these people can go up there and enjoy that rock pile.. other wise it would be wasting away by itself. Better to have them there then scattered over all the other peaks.. I did Craig,Bald Face N and S... saw a few people all day.. let's keep them on Lafayette and Washington.

Can a new restaurant be far away also?
https://goo.gl/images/rBJfHq

 

[JustJoe]

I still love to hike Mt Washington, knowing full well what I'm in for at the summit. But on June 30th, I ran into something I'd never heard of before. How lucky for me. I reached the summit at 10:00 AM to find this. Heard it well before I could see it.

I had to ask. ATV/UTV Day? WTF! The crowds are expected but these things made a pretty obnoxious sound. From both after market exhaust, and stereos blaring. I'll usually stick around despite the crowds but I moved on pretty quickly that day. In case it would annoy others, here the date for next year. They call it a memorial ride but it's still just a money maker IMO.

https://mtwashingtonautoroad.com/events/nh-atv-day

 

[JoshandBaron]

I still love to hike Mt Washington, knowing full well what I'm in for at the summit. But on June 30th, I ran into something I'd never heard of before. How lucky for me. I reached the summit at 10:00 AM to find this. Heard it well before I could see it.



I had to ask. ATV/UTV Day? WTF! The crowds are expected but these things made a pretty obnoxious sound. From both after market exhaust, and stereos blaring. I'll usually stick around despite the crowds but I moved on pretty quickly that day. In case it would annoy others, here the date for next year. They call it a memorial ride but it's still just a money maker IMO.

https://mtwashingtonautoroad.com/events/nh-atv-day

It's bad enough listening to the usual motorcycles while in the GG. This day must have been a real treat.

 

[peakbagger]

I cant see Just Joes link but I would expect the motorcycle only day probably meets or exceeds the impact of ATV event. No car race this year but its relatively quiet compared to the other two events. Given the potential profit from the ATV only events I would not be surprised if they don't expand the opportunities.

Its all comes down to the Cog and the Autoroad are closly held corporations that are out to maximize profits on their assets and they are going to continue to do so until some third party stops them. The autoroad to date has elected to use a more non controversial approach compared to the "bull in the china shop" approach of the cog but both are ultimately interested in making more money. I expect they are both closely held so they can voluntarily elect to reduce impact but its their call. If a summit capacity is determined and is enforced for commercial operations I expect that both parties will want their share and if there are limits imposed they will fight back and ultimately try to get the state to fund the cost to expand the capacity. I expect the hiking community will be brought up in the discussions as we are freeloaders in the eyes of the commercial operations.

The Cog was not inherently altruistic on switching from anthracite coal to "biodiesel" (85% dyno diesel and 15% biodiesel). The coal trains were slow and required water stops so the total number of riders to the summit were limited, by switching to the "biodiesel" generator connected to electric traction motor driven cogs, they substantially increased the number of guests. If the Cog installs a rumored second track or additional sidings they can most likely overwhelm even the auto road numbers. It would be interesting to see a study on the overall emissions impact of each operation relative to each passenger.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I expect the hiking community will be brought up in the discussions as we are freeloaders in the eyes of the commercial operations.

How are hikers freeloaders? Is the supposition that we would take the (auto road, cog) if we couldn't hike? I've never taken either myself, but I can envision both at some point... it would likely involve people who aren't hikers, or possibly driving for a friend racing a bicycle to the top... (or me riding to the top and down in a vehicle.)

Tim

 

[skiguy]

I still love to hike Mt Washington, knowing full well what I'm in for at the summit. But on June 30th, I ran into something I'd never heard of before. How lucky for me. I reached the summit at 10:00 AM to find this. Heard it well before I could see it.

I had to ask. ATV/UTV Day? WTF! The crowds are expected but these things made a pretty obnoxious sound. From both after market exhaust, and stereos blaring. I'll usually stick around despite the crowds but I moved on pretty quickly that day. In case it would annoy others, here the date for next year. They call it a memorial ride but it's still just a money maker IMO.

https://mtwashingtonautoroad.com/events/nh-atv-day

Awhile back after hiking to the Summit of Washington a women struck up a conversation with me. She asked if I had actually hiked to the Summit from Rt. 16. After replying that I had indeed done that she remarked "Why did you go and do that"? I think we all have our unique reasons for going to the Summit of Mount Washington. Even some cars have bumper stickers that claim it climbed Mount Washington. Never could figure out how a car drives itself to the Summit but who knows with technology these days. "The Show" is not going away anytime to soon IMO. I accept Mount Washington as a unique situation and opportunity. Just do your research on when and how you go there to fit your individual needs and feel happy and privileged to be there.

 

[TJsName]

How are hikers freeloaders? Is the supposition that we would take the (auto road, cog) if we couldn't hike? I've never taken either myself, but I can envision both at some point... it would likely involve people who aren't hikers, or possibly driving for a friend racing a bicycle to the top... (or me riding to the top and down in a vehicle.)

Tim

I think his point was that hikers don't add much to the bottom line for the cog/autoroad, but if they use up 'capacity' at the summit, they will be considered dead weight.

 

[peakbagger]

Not sure of your question. The Cog and Autoroad contribute indirectly based on headcount to the maintenance of the summit operations and the Cog directly contributes by allowing the powerline to run over their land. Hikers on the other hand hikers can and do use the services but do not contribute the maintenance of the summit unless they voluntarily elect to buy an infamous chilidog or other refreshments. I haven't seen any good numbers on daily hiker use versus paid customers of the Cog and autoroad.

I expect that had the Cog been successful in building a hotel on their land that they would have had to right to restrict the services to paying customers.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I think I understand what you meant by freeloaders now. Hikers make no accountable contribution to the summit (unless they buy something), but take up space and fill up water and use the restrooms. I originally read your comment from the viewpoint of the auto road and cog only, not including the summit facilities, which probably make more money per person for cog and auto road users than those self-sufficient, food-carrying hikers

Tim

 

[JustJoe]

Just do your research on when and how you go there to fit your individual needs and feel happy and privileged to be there.

I do and thought I had all the major events covered. But this was a new one to me. As I said, the extremely large number of people that can be up there on a beautiful Saturday really doesn't bother me. They have the right to be there how ever the got there. Having said that, I do avoid going on days of any of the auto-road events. I've just got a new one to add to the list.

 

[peakbagger]

Things are heating up again
http://www.unionleader.com/politics...odds-over-rights-on-Mount-Washington-07232018

My statement that both the Auto Road and the Cog support operations at the summit apparently was wrong. The Cog appears to have stopped and therefore cog guests are probably "freeloaders" so us hikers have company .

I expect the ownership summary of the summit may be interesting (it was not up on the website as of this AM).

 

[Hillwalker]

Here is the ownership report. Whew! https://www.nhstateparks.org/uploads/pdf/7.23.Mt.Wash.History.pdf

 

[peakbagger]

Wow, quite a complicated history. I expect if it went to court, it would go on for years. Typically the solution for a mess like this is for the state or public entity to seize the land through eminent domain to "quiet" the prior title issues and then dole out rights as they see fit that meets the pubic good. The federal government most likely could do so but expect they would have no interest and expect no one would be happy with the result if they did. Of course the aggrieved former owners would then file suit to be compensated for their lost rights and the entire can of worms would then be rehashed in court for years. I expect the Mt Washington commission as a whole realizes that any solution has winners and losers and therefore that's why Walter Graf is begging all parties to play well together as the alternatives are far worse where everyone loses a stake in the management to some government entity.

For those who are not aware a "quit claim" deed is an inferior title, the seller is just selling whatever rights they have or claim to have to buyer. An absurd example is I am leaning on the hood of car and someone comes up and offers to buy it from me, I don't own it but I can offer a quit claim to the potential buyer that says that I am selling him whatever rights I have for the car. Doesn't matter that I don't own it, all I am representing is that I am selling whatever rights may have to it. A warranty deed generally is the preferred type of title that a bank requires. The seller represents that they have specific rights to piece of property (be it in its entirety or some specific portion) and there are no other owners or liens. If there is a challenge, the seller can be held responsible by the buyer to defend the sale. Of course land changes hands and past sellers pass away so most banks require title insurance to make sure that someone else is liable if the chain of title has issues. The title firm researches past transactions of the property and they judge the level of risk that the title may be defective and charge accordingly.

 

[jniehof]

hikers can and do use the services but do not contribute the maintenance of the summit unless they voluntarily elect to buy an infamous chilidog or other refreshments.

Eighty bucks every time I renew my registration. Have gotten exactly zip in direct financial benefit (both Pawtuckaway and Mondadnock I tend not to go in the main gate.)

 

[peakbagger]

Eighty bucks every time I renew my registration. Have gotten exactly zip in direct financial benefit (both Pawtuckaway and Mondadnock I tend not to go in the main gate.)

Not sure I understand, what type of registration?

 

[JoshandBaron]

Not sure I understand, what type of registration?

State Park plates give you free admission to state parks

 

[bikehikeskifish]

State Park plates give you free admission to state parks

Only with your car, as I understand it. What if I am on a bike or on foot? Anyone know if the plates come with a piece of paper to avoid the fee in those cases?

Tim