Taking kids into Tuckerman Ravine in bad weather

[cushetunk]

one of my least favorite aspects of this board and many others is the quickness of posters to assume they know whats right and wrong about many situations they hear about or see for that matter.

It's not VFTT; it's the internet. It's making us smarter. Just look how much the average person posting content on the web knows about.

 

[Seeker]

I also think it is LAME to naturally assume all parents have good judgement. While it is ultimately a parent's right to decide what their children are capable of--it ALSO assumes that that parent has any idea what they are getting themselves--and also their children--into.

Case in point: A few years back I drove up to Monadnock. Started late when there were T-storms forecasted late in the day. Feeling full of myself and in good shape, I climbed to the summit at full tilt, all the while watching a t-storm approach. I was sure I could beat it. Not only did I not beat it, as it came down upon us, I literally heard the screams of many children as lightening struck all around us. There were dozens of families up there with their young children. It was the STUPIDEST thing I have ever done personally. And I didn't bring a young child with me.

Just sayin'. I think the query is a reasonable one. Not to trash the parents, but to start a reasonable conversation about when and how to push/encourage one's children. One other point. It is the parent's JOB to decide what is best for the child. Period. You let your child decide, and you could have a tragedy on your hands. I absolutely do not advocate pampering kids (yuck!), but it is your job as a parent to keep them safe. It's all a balance.

 

[Stash]

Just sayin'. I think the query is a reasonable one. Not to trash the parents, but to start a reasonable conversation about when and how to push/encourage one's children. One other point. It is the parent's JOB to decide what is best for the child. Period. You let your child decide, and you could have a tragedy on your hands. I absolutely do not advocate pampering kids (yuck!), but it is your job as a parent to keep them safe. It's all a balance.

This is near a philosophy I've had with my daughter since day 1. I will allow her to participate in most any activity with a real or perceived risk as long as she is able to accurately describe and reasonably discuss the risks involved and how she would deal with them.

 

[TrishandAlex]

Just sayin'. I think the query is a reasonable one. Not to trash the parents, but to start a reasonable conversation about when and how to push/encourage one's children. One other point. It is the parent's JOB to decide what is best for the child. Period. You let your child decide, and you could have a tragedy on your hands. I absolutely do not advocate pampering kids (yuck!), but it is your job as a parent to keep them safe. It's all a balance.

The problem is, you CAN'T decide when it's best for another parent to encourage/push their own children. Unless you've been raising them, you ain't got the foggiest. Really.

The best you can do is decide when it's appropriate to push/encourage YOUR OWN children.

Period.

And yes, let your kid make the decisions. Just remember that you have the veto power, when it's absolutely necessary.

As to the lightening storm example....he he... you also have to assume perfectly nice, otherwise reasonable parents can make a mistake. I pushed/encouraged my youngest to join Alex and I on a hike last summer, up Tom. BIG MISTAKE!!! A storm opened up on us, forming right over our heads. According to the folks at the Mt. Washington Obs., that one wasn't even on the radar. We were all caught in a lightening/hail storm near the top. I learnt a million things from that hike, one of which was if my youngest seems very reluctant to go then DON'T TAKE HER!! It was clear 2 miles in that she was doing this for me, her demeanor in every way was so different from Alex's. And Sage is a strong hiker and enjoys doing 5 miles or so...on a flat surface. Yet we were so close I pushed/encouraged her on with chocolate, etc....I should have turned around and taken her home when it became crystal clear to me that she really wasn't enjoying herself. Lesson learned, never again.

Anyway, had a parent seen us up on Tom that day, in lightening safe position, they would have assumed all sorts of things about my character in general, all of which would have been untrue. Yes, I made a mistake that day, taking my youngest up. But I don't think it would have warranted speculation from total strangers about my general qualities as a hiker and as a mother.

Same thing with these kids in the Ravine.

Judging other people's parenting skills and judgment never seems like a good idea.....you'll never have the full picture so it's always a stacked deck against the parents in these kinds of "conversations."

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Steph Davis free soloing the Diamond

I have always wondered what Steph's parents think of their daughter's free soloing activities. Pretty incredible stuff in this video showing arguably the best female rock climber on the planet right now cruising a 1200-ft overhanging 5.10+ route on Longs Peak in the Colorado Front Range.

http://vimeo.com/3233607?pg=embed&sec

 

[--M.]

That is an unbelievable video, hard to get your head around it. It's the yin to the yang of the cautionary mentality being debated here: total commitment, the only danger is fear. Very Zen. It becomes obvious that she can't just gut out the crux and rush through the danger. She has to become intimately comfortable with the exposure and able to stay out in it indefinitely. It's the ultimate in setting up a problem you can't run from, risking your life as the bet.

What advice do you think she'd offer to the parents, or to the observers of parents?

"He could have gone for general, but he went for himself instead." --Willard, "Apocalypse Now"

 

[Grayjay]

It is a great time for kids in the ravine right now. There is little danger of falling ice as the ravine is full of snow. Also, kids are more resilient and observant than people think. Bringing them there to ski is an acknowledgement of that, and very good for them. Tell them the dangers, let them see for themselves, and let them dance.

 

[Seeker]

I have always wondered what Steph's parents think of their daughter's free soloing activities. Pretty incredible stuff in this video showing arguably the best female rock climber on the planet right now cruising a 1200-ft overhanging 5.10+ route on Longs Peak in the Colorado Front Range.

http://vimeo.com/3233607?pg=embed&sec

Not understanding the connection. She is an adult. How does this relate to the original topic?

 

[WhiteMTHike]

I tend to be conservative as a parent and sometimes a bit protective; my son is 5 y.o. BTW. But I think it's great that parents have their kids on the trails instead of in front of a TV playing video games, eating chips, drinking soda and gaining weight. In my neighborhood parents basically just blow their kids off and tell them to go play in streets. So when I see parents in the mountains with their kids on the trails I always give thumbs up.

With that being said, cautions need to be taken, especially if we are talking Mt. Washington. If the parents of these kids are experienced hikers in the Whites then they are most likely aware of the changing weather conditions on Mt. Washington. As long as these parents had a plan and are equipped to execute it in case of severe weather coming in then I have no problem with this situation.