The North Face needs to lighten up

[J.Dub]

I used to be a North Face addict but moved to Mountain Hardware ~6 yrs ago. I have LOTS of MH gear for every occasion and it never disappoints.
Wicked good stuff and seems virtually indestructible.

Now I know why NF is such a fashion statement if Vanity Fair bought them out. I know I'm profiling again but the mere name VF makes me shudder. I still have a few jackets in my closet.

Long live MH, but whatever happens I am geared up for years to come. Knowing I would be retiring several years ago, I did this intentionally. Didn't want to be caught short on a "fixed" income.

I'm a big MH fan, also (though I never owned any TNF stuff prior). Looking in the gear closet, most of my technical clothing is MH, with some Marmot stuff mixed in. No Patagucci, other than their classic R1 Hoody for climbing. Being a cheap *******, all my stuff has been purchased on sale/clearance, as I refuse to pay full-boat retail. Synthetic baselayer stuff is mostly from Kohls/Target, as their $12 l/s shirts wick just as well as a $45 MH shirt.

When Columbia bought MH a couple years ago, the big fear was that they'd do to MH what VF did to The North Face, but it appears that they haven't gone down that road (yet).

I might be wrong, but I don't think VF Corporation -- formerly Vanity Fair Mills -- is related to the fashion magazine. I believe the similar names were coinicidental.

As regards Wild Things, they were recently bought out by a VC firm and are undergoing a "re-branding", so don't be surprised if you see fewer high-end technical mountaineering offering and more image pieces to make you look good whilst hanging out at the mall...

 

[David Metsky]

VF didn't to anything to TNF that wasn't already in progress. They'd already made that business decision to pursue that demographic and it aligned with VF's plan.

Which, again, doesn't mean they don't make some good gear. It's just that they have a lot of gear that is designed for everyday use in a non-wilderness environment. There's no reason that people in the city shouldn't also get good gear.

 

[Stash]

I buy what I can afford that does the job. I've got a nice pair of breathable pants I've had for years that work well in nasty conditions. They're made for motorcycling but apply quite well to hiking conditions. Much of my gear does dual purpose as bicycling and hiking gear.

Gear is gear. Whether it's an established "outdoor gear manufacturer", whether someone in NYC is wearing it, whether no one has ever heard of it. If it works and you can afford it, use it. If the brand someone wears makes a difference to someone else I feel sorry for someone else.

 

[Stan]

Last I knew the weather gets just as bad in the city as the mountains ... try walking across Boston's City Hall Plaza on a windy winter day (I referred to it as the great tundra as I trekked my way to the North End for lunch) or catch the bernoulli effect 'tween cavernous towers of the financial district.

False fashion statements, maybe, comfortable, sensible and durable, yes. I always longed for casual days and foul weather when outdoor gear was acceptable office wear.

I suspect that all gear is made in the same forced labor factory and outsourced to attach the brand labels anyway ... the difference starts in the merchandising and marketing routes taken here.

 

[Neil]

It's just that they have a lot of gear that is designed for everyday use in a non-wilderness environment. There's no reason that people in the city shouldn't also get good gear.

Good point. Try waiting for a bus in Montreal on a windy street corner when it's -10 with high humidity. I'm always amazed seeing people in flimsy jackets, with no mitts or hats. (and a cigarette! )

At a local gear store they sell "urban outdoor" stuff plus a lot of clothing that doesn't even remotely qualify as "gear". I was teasing the salesman about it and he said that that was how they could afford to carry real gear.

 

[adkayaker]

From a marketing analysis, what is interesting is how brand awareness, loyalty, and market penetration occur. One strong driving force is when a clothing company establishes a near exclusive relationship with a retail chain. The Northface has such an arrangement with Dick's Sporting Goods across the northeast, with huge floor space in men's and women's sections. Woolrich did this with Target, I have just read. This creates a far greater presence than web advertising or specialty outdoor (ski shops, EMS, etc) inventory. To do this however, the pricing stragey has to fit. Patagonia's pricing would not fit with Dicks or Target thus their high-end concentration. To re-emphasize, my original post on this topic was not to bash The Northface, as a business person I am just curious how the whole mass merchandising path occurred.

Sears did this through acquisition, if one can even remotely consider Land's End an Outdoor clothier.

and is my memory correct, that in a last effort, the Moonstone brand was a special insert in either Land's End or Eddie Bauer some years ago, before permanently disappearing.

 

[Mike P.]

It always making more money. I think it cheapens the branding. Someone else will come along to fill the nitche they left void.

Umm, yes, it's all about the money. VF, Exxon, Pfizer, GE, Travelers, John Deere, Walmart.... have one mission, return the best possible profit to the shareholders. If you can make the shareholders $1.00 a share instead of .35 cents than do it. If you run your business at a loss, you won't make anything for long. If your ROE is 5% and your competition's ROE is 15% why would I own shares in your company? If TNF can sell manure (because it's natural, while fresh generates heat & when frozen can be thrown at prey) at a better return of capital & there is a market for it, then they should sell manure.

Most of this stuff is all made overseas in the same factories or very similar ones. Even the Highland Center has MH stuff on clearance, last month I picked up a running/hiking shirt on clearance. They didn't 't always carry MH.

As I understand it, the craze of posers wearing "our" gear came about from kids coming from the south to the Northeast (I imagine this happens in MI, WI, MN, ID, & WA also) to go to college. Campuses like Maine, Bates, UNH, UMass, or even the southern very spread out UConn in Storrs (I imagine, Norwich, Bennington, Paul Smiths, etc are just as cold) can be frigid places to cross in January & February. The 3+ years I worked at EMS I think I sold more Vasque Sundowners (a nice comfy boot) to parents & college Freshman than to hikers. Pay $15 - $40K a year for school, you don't want to hear, "it was too cold (or too wet) to go to class today, Dad" Sold plenty TNF G-Tex Coats & Denali fleece vest to them too. (just chance that EMS has stores in NYC & Boston where many colleges are located & well paid banker, lawyers.....?)

The fact that South Butt also made a knock off of the logo & logo placement was just asking to be sued. I can make a cola drink that taste like cola & I could serve it in an all red can but put it in similar shaped bottle (recently trademarked BTW) or put a white wavy stripe on the can & I'm in deep manure.

BTW, Here is a brief history of the ownership of EMS, from Wikipedia:

History
EMS was founded in 1967 in Wellesley, Massachusetts by two rock climbers (Alan McDonough and Roger Furst) who couldn't find the selection of gear they wanted anywhere else. Alan Tower McDonough, lead founder of the company, was born in Colorado in 1936. When he was a young man he wanted to start a rock climbing company, but there was too much competition in Colorado. He then decided to move to New England to open a store called The Mountain Shop, which later became Eastern Mountain Sports.

McDonough and Furst sold the company in 1979 to The Franklin Mint. In 1981, The Franklin Mint was in turn acquired by Warner Communications (now part of Time Warner). The combination was short lived: Warner sold The Franklin Mint in 1985. However, Warner retained Eastern Mountain Sports, which it subsequently sold to the American Retail Group.[1]

Some years ago when they experienced financial problems, a new president was appointed, and she turned the company around, partly by attracting non-outdoor enthusiasts into the store through day-to-day clothing and a wide range of items such as school backpacks.

Since Will Manzer became President and CEO in September 2004, EMS has focused back towards being a specialty outdoors gear store. This started with a new logo and a reorganization of all their stores. In the recent past EMS were heavily focused in malls, but the company has decided to slowly move towards more self-standing stores.[2]

Likely a pretty similar story for most gear companies.

 

[psmart]

The fact that South Butt also made a knock off of the logo & logo placement was just asking to be sued. I can make a cola drink that taste like cola & I could serve it in an all red can but put it in similar shaped bottle (recently trademarked BTW) or put a white wavy stripe on the can & I'm in deep manure.

Using a confusingly similar logo is probably the core issue in the suit. Everything else is arguably good publicity for NF, but misuse of a trademark is a big no-no, and will draw a strong response from any company that has invested so much in establishing the mark.

 

[sardog1]

McDonough and Furst sold the company in 1979 to The Franklin Mint. In 1981, The Franklin Mint was in turn acquired by Warner Communications (now part of Time Warner). The combination was short lived: Warner sold The Franklin Mint in 1985. However, Warner retained Eastern Mountain Sports, which it subsequently sold to the American Retail Group.[1]

Some years ago when they experienced financial problems, a new president was appointed, and she turned the company around, partly by attracting non-outdoor enthusiasts into the store through day-to-day clothing and a wide range of items such as school backpacks.

Since Will Manzer became President and CEO in September 2004, EMS has focused back towards being a specialty outdoors gear store. This started with a new logo and a reorganization of all their stores. In the recent past EMS were heavily focused in malls, but the company has decided to slowly move towards more self-standing stores.[2]

And while we're on the subject of misappropriating brands -- The ownership of "American" Retail Group was something that never seemed to be featured in the EMS stores. (EDIT: I should have pointed out that the foreign control went away with the recent sale to the management and their investment partners.)