Torngat Mountains

[Viewfinder]

Anybody out there been to the Torngats?

I noticed that Papa Bear has a neat picture of Mt. Caubvick, the highest peak in the Torngats, as his avatar. Have you been there Papa Bear? If so, is that an alpine pond at the base of that
snowy bowl? and what time of year was it?

I'd be interested in travel details, contacts, costs, etc. if anybody has them. I keep going further and further north into Canada and just love it...

Viewfinder

 

[Papa Bear]

Hi Viewfinder

No I have not been there but hope to go, perhaps next summer (2005). A few others on this board have some interest too.

That picture came from here . There are several tarns or glacial lakes at the foot of that glacier in the center (the Minaret Glacier).

Kind of expensive to get there. A group would be essential, and given the once-in-a-lifetime nature of such a trip I would want to spend at least 2 weeks there. I suggest reading "Not Won in a Day" by Jack Bennett which has a nice section on his trip there.

Let's keep in touch. Anyone else wanna go?

Pb

 

[dug]

Do I want to? Absotively!! I have no idea if I can possibly swing it logistically with a possible Machu Pichu trip coming up, but if someone does organize this keep us updated. I will need a hall pass for that one, too......

 

[Adi]

Just out of curiosity with regards to the Torngats.

I've been looking into it for several years and one of the debatable issues for myself was the question of bringing a rifle or not as protection from the existing threat of polar bears in the Torngats.

The polar bear being a species in the verge of being endangered, I chose to not take the risk of having to defend myself against an animal that has such a limited popluation by hiking elsewhere. How do others feel about this.

 

[Papa Bear]

Just out of curiosity with regards to the Torngats.

I've been looking into it for several years and one of the debatable issues for myself was the question of bringing a rifle or not as protection from the existing threat of polar bears in the Torngats.

The polar bear being a species in the verge of being endangered, I chose to not take the risk of having to defend myself against an animal that has such a limited popluation by hiking elsewhere. How do others feel about this.

Adi

Good question and one I asked Jack Bennett. He pointed out the polar bears hang out along the coast and not inland where the interesting mountains are. As for black bears, he said they were around in the river valleys but stayed away from the humans. Luckily that have not been tamed (yet!) and have not learned to associate food with humans. Let's hope it stays that way as places like this become more popular. He said he personally saw no need to bring a rifle in. He is planning another trip with a larger group this summer (Aug. 2004).

Best bet for you or anyone is to find out everuything you can from available sources (most of my research started with the internet), contact people personally, and then make your own decision. My decision is to worry about increasing my skill at mountaineering (several climbes are technical) and not worry about the wildlife - except I would love to see some of the larger species (Caribou, Wolves, etc.) in their natural habitat - something not possible in the lower 48.

I suggest this question not become a stepping off point for another philosophical discussion on this issue which has recently been discussed on this board.

HYOH. 'nuff said.

Pb

 

[Meo]

I know another group (canadian soldiers) going there this summer to do some kayak and climb mt D'Iberville (aka Caubvick). It's a summer training for them (not battle-like, more for their "group spirit"). I'll let you know about everything new and interesting they'll find during their preparation and their trip.

Fortunately for them, their helicopter flight (by far the biggest problem ($$$) with such a trip) won't cost a thing, being paid by the army.

 

[leduc]

Some comments

First of all I would never risk my life by letting the Canadian army take me in one of their helicopters

About the polar bears:
going there is moving from the end of the feeding chain to somewhere in the middle....

About climbing those mountains:
I'm pretty excited at the idea (this is the whole meaning of my avatar: Leduc + Mountains = Excited)

About getting there:
The simplest way is to fly by plane from Kangiqsualujjuaq. It takes a beaver or Otter, equipped with large wheels. Why large, because you land directly in a flat area at the base of the mountains. You can be back either by plane or canoe. By canoe: better buy or rent a canoe from there, or ship it by boat if you want to have your own. Too expensive to send a canoe by commercial plane. The Koroc river runs from the base of the Torngats to the Ungava Bay. It is not difficult. Not completely easy, but I've been told that anyone with no canoeing experience but a certain judgement and some buffer of time ahead is able to make it.

Maps and infos available from http://www.cartespleinair.org , Under "Canot-Cartes".
1) Map of the Nunavik: (Québec, Nunavik, Tourisme Nunavik, GIF 1.3MB)
2) Quebec Far North: (Québec, Grand Nord Québécois,Ministère Tourisme, GIF 3.4M)
3) Document on minimal info about taking an hydroplane(floatplane). In French however.
The maps are detailed. Using Microsoft Internet Explorer, you can click on the maps to see a larger view.

Hope this helps,

Charles

 

[Papa Bear]

I know another group (canadian soldiers) going there this summer to do some kayak and climb mt D'Iberville (aka Caubvick). It's a summer training for them (not battle-like, more for their "group spirit").

I fear more than a little for the environment from such a group. An army group, by nature of it's primary mission is not dedicated to LNT practices. One of the attractions of this area is that it is so "untouched". I hate to think what a 2 week army bivouac will do, especially for things like human waste.

The soil is so thin and the season is so short that "cat holling" does not generally do the trick. "Blue bagging" (packing out human waste) is the only truly LNT solution to the problem in this type of ecosystem. Hard to imaging army recruits doing that.

The other critical thing: to keep the bears wild, extreme camp cleanliness in regards to food is essential. I just hope these guys don't train the local bears to associate an easy meal with human camps. That will have a direct and negative affect on anyone following them.

Meo: if you have any friends among the organizers of this trip I hope you can sensitize them to these issues. Anyway, I will be interested in first hand information from this group if it becomes available.

Pb

 

[Claude]

Just for your information. The Koroc river is in the process of being review to become a provincial park. As for the river often there is low water level after mid-july making canoing difficult. You should contact http://www.nunavik-tourism.com/ for more informations.

 

[Meo]

Meo: if you have any friends among the organizers of this trip I hope you can sensitize them to these issues. Anyway, I will be interested in first hand information from this group if it becomes available.

Friends? Not really. A guy called me, he received a message from Leduc on a french hiking board ("la meute des randonneurs") saying that he should contact me. And he did. I just gave him the internet links and maps I gathered, the rest is up to him. He's supposed to send me via email any useful information, so when he'll email me I'll add a few comments concerning LNT.

 

[leduc]

Enviro-lecturing

Meo has worked on identifying/classifying the highest summits of the Torngats.

BTW, see http://www.lnt.org

The problem I think with with "sensitizing" people is measure. About 10 years ago, I used to do some endless lecturing to anyone I went outdoors with. I found that this often leads to the exact opposite effect than what I aimed at. People tell themselves: "oh, another enviro-defendor-socialist-gorp eater, this guy is exactly what I wish I will never become in my lifetime". Not only they do not take the behaviors you suggest, but also they classify you and others like you as "moron-fish-and-tree-protectors".

Over time I changed my approach: it is harder to find a very subtile approach and giving the right example without being seen as the enviro-terrorist. Such a gentle approach gives limited results and slow progression, but at least it does work.

Triggerring questions in people's minds is enough to bring them to the right answer. Trying to write the answer directly into their central memory does not work, they need some processing to be done. When people see you walking far from the river and campsite to dig a hole, they will either understand, or ask.

If you want your friends to see a particular movie, option 1:
"humm, have you seen the XYZ movie ? Still not know what to think, maybe not as good as most people say, but still whether it good or not, I'd say it is ... euhhh, special"

option 2:
"you gotta see this, you gotta see this, man its very good, you gotta see this, you gotta see this, man you gotta see this."

What I'd do for this guy, just tell him something like:
-at the same time that you rent a canoe or book a flight, maybe ask them for the barrels"
- barrels ??? barrels ???
- yes, I THINK most people bring their feces back because... SHORT bla bla... yeah I know it is more trouble, but in any case if you want to do this better ask them I'm sure they know.

Or ask him if he is afraid from NOT being at the end of the feed chain, and give him friendly advices re. what to do with his food to prevent trouble, and maybe add that "supposedly they are starting having trouble because probably only a couple of groups attracted bears. "

OK, now I feel that I did too much lecturing... you will say "humm, Leduc is exacctly the kind of guy that I wish I'll never be..." and so on

Charles

 

[Papa Bear]

Great advice Leduc. You sound like an experienced teacher. Sometimes the soft approach will work where the hard approach will fail. And sorry when I reviewed "Touching the Void" I said "see it!". I guess maybe forget it, don't see it.

Thanks Meo, I guess you are getting a reputation as being knowledgeable. I'm sure any first hand information you get from this army group will be invaluable to anyone here who may make the trip in the future.

Pb

 

[Viewfinder]

torngat thoughts

Thanks everyone for your input! It's got me more and more curious about these distant mountains and the native communities that live nearby. And then there's always Baffin and Ellsmere Islands...endless country to the north. Funny though how it'd probably cost just as much to put together a trip into the Alaska Range...where the systems of transport and communication are already established and highly used(relatively speaking). I'll do some research over the next few months and see if I can put together a skeleton of costs and itinerary for future reference.

As for educational approaches re:LNT principles and environmental ethics, interesting dialogue indeed. Reminds me a bit of Tom Brown's books and Grandfather's coyote approach to teaching...where you not only teach/lead through example, but answer questions with questions, leaving the learner with the responsibility to go after the questions that matter most to them if they truely want to gain that knowledge. I question whether or not this approach can be effective in the contemporary western world with all of its creature comforts and opportunities for passive learning and information consumption, but that is perhaps a topic for a different forum and/or post.

 

[Stan]

I've seen the Torngat but from the sea aboard a US Coast Guard polar icebreaker. It is a desolate and barren appearing place yet possesses a unique beauty, not to mention logistical challenge, that somehow beckons to a least a few of us.

The weather in this area is not the most charming even during the long summer days. In fact, it was much clearer and calmer, though obviously colder, during our winter emergency voyages than during the summer trips.

I, too, would like to visit this place and found a few interesting magazine articles, with luring photos, at the library.

I'm probably at least a few years away from this trip because I'd like to do it with freedom from external deadlines ... hence, it may be a retirement project. My preference would be to approach it from sea once again, exclusively chartering a vessel for the purpose. That facilitates more weight for a variety of activities including paddling and it allows a "car spot" of sorts. I would also engage the guide service of the native peoples, Inuit I believe. To share in the skills and traditions of these people would be worth the price of admission in my mind.

I believe this area has been designated as some sort of national park. I say "sort of" because I'm also aware that mineral claims on certain of the lands in the area are available but I do not know the commercial feasibility nor whether any mining has actually occurred there.

Finally, I would suggest if you haven't tried Arctic Char, then by all means do so. However, here in the Boston area the only source that I'm aware of is from fish farms in Iceland. Adm. Peary took delight in this fish eaten raw and in frozen form; modern day sailors generally enjoy it prepared with a bit more culinary sophistication.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

I have spent over 18 months of my life (15 expeditions) doing glacial geological field work on Baffin Island, and only saw my first polar bear only in 2001. But, he or she was 10 miles inland. The Inuit say that you should expect to see a polar bear any time, any place. We carry flares, shot guns with crackers and slugs, and mace (last resort) everywhere we go.

Although polar bears are less common in Labrador than on Baffin Island, black bears are common. A colleague working in the Torngats in 1978 was forced to kill a black bear that charged them at their camp; lucky that he killed the bear with one slug, because his old 303 army rifle jammed after that first shot.

Of course, keeping a clean camp helps, but bears are naturally curious animals, and most bears in the North are fearless. Over the past few years, polar bears are spending more time on the land because the sea ice where they do their seal hunting is forming later and melting earlier each year (presumably because of global warming). Bears on the land are always hungry.

 

[psychoanalyst]

Hello All

I am a new member here and trying to get information on visiting Torngats. Has anyone been there recently?

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Over 19 years later, and I still have not been there, although have flown over several more times on way to/from Baffin Island, which is much easier to access than the Torngats.