That's a pretty dated trip report. I remember reading it. Was he in violation? Maybe he will chime in and clarify. I really don't let others' perceptions I read about online affect my attitude about where and what I do. Did a report about a messy outhouse in Baxter deter me from going back there again? No! Go out follow the rules and hike your hike. You never know what you might have missed.
"Traditional" Route To Skylight
- Thread starter DayTrip
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DayTrip
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No he went by the book. He wasn't cited and did nothing wrong. They were just very intrusive. I think at one point the ranger poked his head in his tent with a flashlight at 11:30PM or something to grill him about where his bear vault was or something like that. Based on my interactions with HikerBrian over the years I feel confident his explanation of his experience would be accurate and factually correct and trust his opinion. And as far as a dated report, it wasn't that long ago. I'm sure they haven't gotten any friendlier. And his experience was not the only one I've read about. It was just one I could thing of that VFTT people could relate to.
I don't make go/no go decisions based on any one event or even small trend for that matter. But when I'm deciding between Trip "A" and Trip "B" it can factor into my thoughts.
Here's a refreasher. It was more like 9:30 PM. For a one time experience and considering it was during the pandemic I'd call it a bit dated. https://www.vftt.org/threads/mt-colden-loop-advice-needed.61409/#post-455492
To each his own. They had a plan that was not fully researched and had to make some adjustments according to the rules. Others did not get pegged out that were not following the rules. I could see developing an attitude or at least not being happy in that situation. Not saying this person did that. But again carry on and do the best you can and have a good time in the situation given. Again I personally don't let others rants and opinions online hold much water in my bucket when it comes to this sort of thing.
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"I've done some hikes in the Adirondacks (maybe 8 or 9 of the 4k's) and I don't personally find it much worse than the Whites."
My experience is different. Having done all the high peaks in both areas, I found that the ADK's were harder. I've told people that the Whites were a good warm-up for the ADK's. I'd did all peaks as dayhikes when I lived in Vermont. The ADK's made for some long days.
My experience is different. Having done all the high peaks in both areas, I found that the ADK's were harder. I've told people that the Whites were a good warm-up for the ADK's. I'd did all peaks as dayhikes when I lived in Vermont. The ADK's made for some long days.
DayTrip
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I basically agree. They are harder. It is just not night and day different to me. I am also predominantly a day hiker so the NY drives are 3h 45m to 4h 30 min for me versus 3h15 to 4h in NH. I'm a big fan of the "long day" so my experience is probably simialr than yours (although I'm probably in crappier shape...
).As I outlined, the approaches are much longer and I find the cols steeper than the Whites. "Traditional route" versus "Traditional route" I definitely give the Adirondacks the nod for more difficult. Many of the ravine trails in the Whites are quite steep, rugged and nasty and certainly on par or worse with many ADK trails I've done. Completing the ADK 46ers is definitely a more impressive accomplishment than the NH 48k's. As an aside, I'd love your input on the toughest hikes in the Adirondacks and if you had any comparisons to hikes in the Whites.
If I was going to make one definitive distinction between the two (and my experience here is very limited), I would say the Adirondacks in Winter are substantially more difficult than the Whites. Those longer approaches become a huge deal, especially if breaking trail, and although I've only done a few Winter ADK's I found the steep sections to be much more awkward and icy than the typical NH 4k. I can only imagine what deep in the Great Range or some of those remote herd path peaks are like in late JAN or FEB. You no doubt earn that Winter 46er patch.
As an aside, I'd love your input on the toughest hikes in the Adirondacks and if you had any comparisons to hikes in the Whites.
Not sure I can offer much specific info, as I finished the ADK list in Oct 2001 and there were plenty of places to hike in VT & VT much closer. I found the winters much snowier, due to the effect of the Tug Hill Plateau.
Not sure I can offer much specific info, as I finished the ADK list in Oct 2001 and there were plenty of places to hike in VT & VT much closer. I found the winters much snowier, due to the effect of the Tug Hill Plateau.
foulhooked
New member
For a single 4k peak I'd probably go with Basin or Haystack. There's just no easy way to get there. Haven't hiked enough of the Whites to give a comparable peak. But separate from that, depending on routing, the Franconias and the MacIntyres line up pretty well with each other.
Ahhh.... the old age discussion. IMO neither the Daks are harder than the Whites or visa versa. They are similar yet different. I will say a good portion of both ranges in the modern age of hiking are easier in the Winter than the Summer. Especially with all the packing out of trails and the available info online. One thing for sure is I will take quite a few of those muddy hikes in both ranges in the Winter when it's frozen over.
In early March, 2002 I did Basin and Haystack as a dayhike with 2 friends. Deep snow, we broke trail all day. Would not want to do that hike again!
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Daniel Eagan
Active member
Skylight FYI—2021 AMC High Peaks Trails guidebook, p. 218: "Although earlier editions of this guide suggested carrying a rock from timberline for the summit cairn, this unsustainable practice is no longer acceptable."
helmethiker
New member
In the late 1960s or early 1970s I was taught that it was correct to build up cairns that appeared to need it. I believe that was what the people in the Highlands of Scotland, which I believe is the source of the word cairn, did to maintain their walking pathways. With the number of people and the fact that these are no longer the main paths over the mountains from one village to the next, this is no longer correct.
helmethiker
New member
in 1994 when I was 39 and staying at Putnam Camp, I did Gothics, Saddleback, Basin, Haystack, Blake and Colvin as a 12 hour day hike. I started at 9:30 after breakfast and a bus ride halfway up the road from St Huberts to the lower Ausable Lake. The stupid part was turning right for Blake at 5:45 or 6 PM when I had no lights if I did not get out in time. The road walk return was after sunset but not fully dark. Back then people staying at Putnam Camp could get bus rides. Since I was a guest and not a member, I do not know how to find out what the rules are now. But a strong hiker starting early at St Huberts could duplicate that. In fact one of the 20 or so year old Putnam Camp staff people did a similar hike but started over the Wolfjaws and Armstrong for 22 miles.
Yeah, there are some "traditional" routes, especially for Skylight and Haystack, Your plan from Upper Works via Calamity Brook sounds solid for a 2-day trip. It’s a bit challenging but not insane. Staying overnight is smart, the views up there are definitely worth soaking in.
Upper Works parking should be fine on a weekday. It’s not as crazy as Loj or Garden, so getting there around 7-8AM should get you a spot.
Heads up: You might hit some wet/muddy spots, especially near Opalescent. They've done some maintenance recently, but still, be ready for mud.
Upper Works parking should be fine on a weekday. It’s not as crazy as Loj or Garden, so getting there around 7-8AM should get you a spot.
Heads up: You might hit some wet/muddy spots, especially near Opalescent. They've done some maintenance recently, but still, be ready for mud.
Coming from Elk Lake, backpacked up Panther Gorge. Stayed at the former Four Corners leanto between Skylight and Gray. Then Basin-Saddleback, staying at old Snowbird Leanto. Then out over the rest of the Range Trail to KV. Spectacular route but you'd have to drop down to legal camping elevation.
