"unmaintained" trails vs "maintained" trails

[Frodo]

Recently I was hiking again in the Adk's (which I don't get to do as often as I would like), and I ended up doing 2 of the trail-less peaks (which are obviously not trail-less) . Anyway, my question lies, what defines a trail-less peak? The 2 I did (Gray, and Cliff) had maintained herd paths with plenty of signs of trail maintenance, so why are they still classified as "non-maintained trails" or herd paths? Why not just add trail markers and make them official?

 

[Neil]

My understanding is that now they call them minimum maintenance trails and according to the man himself (Pete Hickey) they clear blowdown only if they think a new herd path will form around it. Otherwise they leave it.

 

[Jay H]

Recently I was hiking again in the Adk's (which I don't get to do as often as I would like), and I ended up doing 2 of the trail-less peaks (which are obviously not trail-less) . Anyway, my question lies, what defines a trail-less peak? The 2 I did (Gray, and Cliff) had maintained herd paths with plenty of signs of trail maintenance, so why are they still classified as "non-maintained trails" or herd paths? Why not just add trail markers and make them official?

I've said the same thing everytime I am on them... Although for sure, they are very very nice, such as the "trail" to Redfield or say the "trail" to the Macomb Slide... I've always wondered if the trail crew are going to do such good maintenance, they might as well mark them. Those that choose to go trailess could surely just not follow it.

Jay

 

[Skyclimber]

Recently I was hiking again in the Adk's (which I don't get to do as often as I would like), and I ended up doing 2 of the trail-less peaks (which are obviously not trail-less) . Anyway, my question lies, what defines a trail-less peak? The 2 I did (Gray, and Cliff) had maintained herd paths with plenty of signs of trail maintenance, so why are they still classified as "non-maintained trails" or herd paths? Why not just add trail markers and make them official?

None of the High Peaks are trailless. A trailless peak would be one that you would strictly need map, compass, GPS to reach the top. Many of the peaks outside of the Forty Six require this.

They are considered "Wilderness Paths," therefore no trail markers are set forth on them and don't believe DEC would ever approve of them either because of the Forever Wild Act. Minimal maintenance is to lessen new herdpaths from forming, keeping the hikers on one designated path.

Some of the herdpath peaks before the Forty Sixers began the "minimal maintenance" used to have spagetti paths, all over the place. Street and Nye used to have the highest Search and Rescue of any Mountain.

 

[Tom Rankin]

If you attempt any of the 'trailless' peaks in the Winter, you might find that they seem a lot more 'trailless' than you thought! It's very easy to lose an unmarked trail in the Winter, especially Couch, Redfield, Cliff, etc.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

Minimal maintenance is to lessen new herdpaths from forming, keeping the hikers on one designated path.

Some of the herdpath peaks before the Forty Sixers began the "minimal maintenance" used to have spagetti paths, all over the place. Street and Nye used to have the highest Search and Rescue of any Mountain.

Wow!! At least they've got it figured out in NY. Do you think it will ever happen in NH?

 

[RoySwkr]

As it was explained to me, NY has a tradition of trailless peaks on the 4k list so they can't build official trails to them without ruining the tradition. But since multiple herd paths were unsightly and perhaps damaging to the environment, it was decided to have "official" herd paths and close the "unofficial" ones. I'm not sure any document describes which are which, I've often seen brush piles come & go across paths.

NH by contrast is for wimps as all 4k are required to have paths, hence the "new" summit of Owls Head is still not "official".

 

[Guinness]

I also just did Cliff and the herd-path is well defined, just missing the disks on the trees. I understand why they are providing minimal maintenance on these trails. If the routes were left to the hiker, they will always take the path of least resistance resulting in flagging, cutting markers into trees and wandering all around to clear wet areas.

As previously mentioned, Street and Nye is a great example. It was becoming a indistinguishable series of herd-paths often going nowhere. Up Macomb to the start of the slide was another. Couchy is another example of a path where the trees were damaged by an idiot with a blade. The list goes on and on. There are not enough qualified hikers that truly know how to use a compass, altimeter and map. Forget the GPS, learn the basics. Especially in areas with significant blow down where you travel three hours per mile. Since the crews started to perform minimal maintenance the SAR incidents are reduced and the mountains are a little less damaged.

As for Gray, it saw some maintenance on Friday just before you (Frodo) headed up. Now when winter is here - our quest for pure trail-less peaks becomes a reality and the fun begins!

 

[Viewseeker]

Well last yr. I attempted to do all the santanonis may 17th or something near there. Well let me say that I agree with Mr. Rankin......With 3-4ft of snow still there, no herdpath is visable and it becomes a bushwack in a sense which on our hike we used GPS to find out way. Instead of say a few hours out and back to couch, it took us 6-8hrs and we falled to get the other peaks as we where tired and wet and cold from the battle, climbing on large rocks to find our way also.... And all this in Late may!!!! after that i knew the meaning of "trailless" not only in summer but winter conditions. Got back there this yr. The area looks totally different without snow. I have such a respect for those who battle the winter hiking, especially the "trailless ones".

Hats Off

 

[Jay H]

In winter, I think the best bet is to take a compass bearing at the last known waypoint, like a trail or the start of the bushwack. If you've at least been there in the non-snow conditions, you can usually figure out where the bushwack starts from by known landmarks. Once you have a bearing, you can attempt to follow the usual herdpath and if one gets discombobulated, one can check the compass. Even when on the herdpath, it's good to check a bearing every now and then, assuming the herdpath doesn't make a lot of turns. I try to do this in winter, even if there is already an established footpath in the snow one can follow. Of course, in winter, sometimes it is easy enough to follow a bearing rather than to try to follow a footpath. Sometimes there is enough snow that most of the trees are already beneath the snowpack. Going over Boundary to Iriquois is one such peak where in winter, sometimes it is faster to just follow a bearing, rather than the herdpath.

Jay

 

[skiguy]

sometimes it is faster to just follow a bearing, rather than the herdpath.

Jay

Or wait until PinPin breaks out the trail and follow his tracks

 

[Tom Rankin]

Or wait until PinPin breaks out the trail and follow his tracks

Been there, done that! He's also caught up to us and passed us, thanking us for the trailbreaking!

Of course, there are times when the trail disappears the same day!

 

[Grumpy]

Revisiting the original post/question ...

The decision to more thoughtfully scout, mark out and then clear preferred paths to the summits of the so-called “trailless” Adirondack 46er peaks was an excellent, realistic move in the interest of resource conservation. We should applaud the folks who have made this happen, including the land management policy makers who reached the decision and the DEC staff and 46ers trail crew volunteers who have done the field work to establish those routes and and keep them open.

It makes less sense (in my view) to leave those paths out of the red-blue-yellow marked trail system. That part of the decision appears have arisen from bureaucratic and political hair-splitting of the sort I instinctively dislike. On the other hand, leaving the paths unmarked seems to have worked out so far, in accomplishing its conservation objective. Time will tell the story more fully.

G.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

...It makes less sense (in my view) to leave those paths out of the red-blue-yellow marked trail system. That part of the decision appears have arisen from bureaucratic and political hair-splitting of the sort I instinctively dislike. On the other hand, leaving the paths unmarked seems to have worked out so far, in accomplishing its conservation objective. Time will tell the story more fully.

G.

Couldn't agree more, Mr. G.

 

[DougPaul]

It makes less sense (in my view) to leave those paths out of the red-blue-yellow marked trail system. That part of the decision appears have arisen from bureaucratic and political hair-splitting of the sort I instinctively dislike. On the other hand, leaving the paths unmarked seems to have worked out so far, in accomplishing its conservation objective. Time will tell the story more fully.

Also agreed. At least in summer, the distinction seems phony, particularly now that the herd paths are maintained. (And even before they were maintained, I simply viewed them as poorly maintained and poorly marked trails. You just had to buy the "alternate" guidebook to get the full trail descriptions.)


One should also note that in winter following even a marked trail is often bushwacking in practice.

Doug

 

[TCD]

I also agree with Grumpy. It was a good call to clean up the messes that had developed in places like Street and Nye. I recall hiking to those peaks one night before the cleanup. At night, it was extraordinarily difficult to sort out the maze of paths.

I only wish the DEC would thoughtfully scout, mark, and clear preferred paths on the NP, instead of leaving a maze of "workarounds" in place. (No thread hijack intended; just an aside.)

 

[BlackSpruce]

... cairns culture...

I only wish "bored" or well-meaning" climbers would refrain from building small or large cairns. Unnecessary ones sitting in the middle of the paths or on top/edge of ledges can be dangerous! Furthermore removing rocks results in long term damage to the vegetation as they retain the soil, particularly above tree line. Mind you a rare few hikers take down every cairn in sight... go figure!

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I only wish "bored" or well-meaning" climbers would refrain from building small or large cairns. Unnecessary ones sitting in the middle of the paths or on top/edge of ledges can be dangerous! Furthermore removing rocks results in long term damage to the vegetation as they retain the soil, particularly above tree line. Mind you a rare few hikers take down every cairn in sight... go figure!

In some sections of the country, I've been told that it's USFS policy to use cairns rather than paint to mark trails above treeline.

Are you one of the "rare few hikers"?

 

[tgoodwin]

The decision to define and maintain herd paths came from the work of the Citizens Advisory Committee for the High Peaks Wilderness Unit Management Plan - a group that met over the course of several years in the early 1990's. The 46-R representative stated that a survey of the 46-R membership showed virtually no support for marked trails on the "trailless" peaks, but there was general agreement that something had to be done to mitigate situations such as Street and Nye as has been mentioned earlier. The concept of minimal maintenance (just enough to keep hikers on the same path) was the compromise solution. Great credit goes to Pete Hickey and the other 46-Rs who have put miuch time and effort into gaining approvals and then doing the actual work. While progress has been slower and much still needs to be done (witness the north side of Seymour and Seward), at least we seem to be moving forward and not backward when it comes to preserving the landscape surrounding these routes.
The ADK High Peaks Guide has since followed a policy of showing those paths that have been "designated" on the map as "Unmarked/Minimal Maintenance Paths" - a category that also includes some other routes that are currently plain but still something less than an official trail. The guide itself also includes a more detailed description on the assumption that the route will not change significantly now that the path receives some maintenance. (There were earlier cases where one large tree in the way could force hikers to take an entirely different route - thus making any detailed description quickly obsolete.)
This policy is hardly "neat and clean" and it is not surprising that questions like this come up now and then; but it does seem that there has been general consistency in the way the 46-Rs have implemented this policy.
Hope the above helps to explain the current situation.

 

[Skyclimber]

I only wish "bored" or well-meaning" climbers would refrain from building small or large cairns. Unnecessary ones sitting in the middle of the path or on top/edge of ledges can be dangerous!

I know all about those "unexpected" cairns on rock ledges!!