Unrecognized Vermont 3000'er?

[SpencerVT]

EDIT UPDATE: GUESS THIS IS NOT A 3000'ER: DOH! Evidently I was absent on "contour line counting" day in school. Yes, people are correct, it's 20 foot contours not 30', therefore I am wrong and the highest line is indeed 2,960'.
It is interesting that GPS put it higher though, but it definitely seems that 2,972 is a pretty accurate measurement for this peak. Dammit, I was hoping I stumbled upon something. I'm still working on that "learning to count" concept....hahahaha
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For a long time I had suspected that an unnamed peak exactly on the border of Lemington and Averill in Vermont was a 3000'er, because it was just so damn close on the map. So this past weekend, my wife and I went to check it out. It was freezing cold and snowy. A fun bushwhack to the summit. My wife and I were back to my truck at the end of the logging access road off of East Branch road by 5. East Branch road is seasonal - the VAST trail in winter.
In my opinion, this is likely a 3000'er that's yet to be recognized as such.

Photo of Gazetteer showing route highlighted in orange we took going in from East Branch Road with the summit circled in orange. I was able to drive my truck almost the entire way in that is shown highlighted in orange, stopping just before the summit circled:

My wife at a clearing with the mountain in the background:

The snowy ascent up to the ridge:

My GPS program showing the elevation. When I first arrived at the canister it read 3003 feet. If you look on the map it says 2,912' a couple contour lines down. (it's upside down in the photo). If you count the 30' increments, then the last established topo line is 2,990. Which means there only has to be 10 feet beyond that to make it a 3000'er, and still another 20' to go before another contour line would be put on the topo map. It definitely seemed to reach over 3000'.

The canister at the top. Only a couple names had signed in. Sure enough, Pin Pin was one of them!

 

[Sherby]

According to peakbagger.com, its elevation is between 2960 and 2980 : http://www.peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=43117 (i.e. it's in NE500).

 

[SpencerVT]

That doesn't make any sense though because Peakbagger is using a map which shows the highest contour line to definitively be 2,990, yet Peakbagger maxes it out at 2,980.

 

[nartreb]

Peakbagger gives a choice of maps: "Caltopo" and "Mytopo" are based on the USGS map which uses 20' contours (not 30') and depicts the peak as safely under 3000' (last contour 2960'). The Google Maps map (Terrain option) uses 40' contours, giving the same last contour with a less precise upper bound. There is no indication that the peak was directly measured (there's a point a little east of the peak at 2912, but I guess the peak had no views), so it was probably calculated from photographs, so the map could well be off by a few feet, but the map does not help your cause.

At what height above the ground were you holding the GPS antenna?

 

[MarkJ]

This could be the 90th highest pk in VT,listed as peak 2972 in the town of Averill,Albee has done it,according to lists of John. Nice area up there been thru that region

 

[SpencerVT]

DOH! Evidently I was absent on "contour line counting" day in school. Yes, you are correct, it's 20 foot contours not 30', therefore I am wrong and the highest line is indeed 2,960'.
It is interesting that GPS put it higher though, but it definitely seems that 2,972 is a pretty accurate measurement for this peak. Dammit, I was hoping I stumbled upon something. I'm still working on that "learning to count" concept....hahahaha

 

[DougPaul]

It is interesting that GPS put it higher though

The nominal vertical error of a consumer GPS is around 20 meters (66ft) (ie a 95% probability of being within 20 meters of the correct value). A long-term average (over several hours or more) is more accurate.

A properly GPS-calibrated barometric altimeter will generally also be more accurate than the GPS alone because it uses the long-term differences between GPS and barometric altitudes for calibration.

The geoid (0 altitude) model in the GPS can also contribute to the error.

Thus a consumer GPS could easily indicate >= 3K ft on a 2972 ft peak. (Or 2976 ft if you are standing and holding the GPS in your hand...)

Doug

 

[SpencerVT]

Doug - That's good info to know - Thanks!

 

[DougPaul]

Doug - That's good info to know - Thanks!

Many users are unaware of the error sizes of consumer GPSes (typ ~10m horiz, ~20m vert) and thus one sees incredulous reports of someone walking along the beach while the GPS reports that they are out to sea and/or below sea level.

Car GPSes can also decide that one is on a nearby parallel road and offer incorrect directions.

BTW, the (horizontal) accuracy estimates displayed by consumer GPSes do not take some factors into account. Thus these numbers cannot be trusted. It is best to think of them as a lower bound on the current error.

Doug

 

[Peakbagr]

Adding to Doug Paul's comments - We've all read TRs where poster walked around in the woods and their GPS told them they were 6ft higher, 50 yds away from the canister. LOL

 

[DougPaul]

It may also be worth noting that maps have errors too. Many of these errors only became visible to travelers when they started using GPSes.

Add more errors from tracks and waypoints... (Particularly if supplied by an amateur with a consumer GPS. Professionally generated tracks and waypoints will usually have much smaller errors.)


Executive summary: all physical measurements have errors.

Doug