DougPaul
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This hints at one of the problems with this kind of thread. It is so undefined that one can talk about almost anything...
Doug
Up or Down?
- Thread starter Tom Rankin
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Doug
Maddy
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I agree with Elizabeth...follow the dog!
My first dog, hiker Ben was very rugged and experienced He led me out to my vehicle when I was lost x2 in VT.I think both of my Akita's would have led me out safely.
Hiking was not their thing and they did it under duress. They were always very eager to return to the comfort of the vehicle and a good meal.
Several other of my dogs I doubt would have been capable of leading the way out. My Old English Sheepdog would have surely led to water.
Molly...I hope will be a great, savy hiker. Time will tell.
I have been thinking how easy it is for me to read books like Deep Survival, and agree with what the author recommends. However, I don't think I would do very well if lost. If for any reason I cannot spot blazes, my heart immediately shoots to my throat , and I have overwhelming fear and a sense of panic that just continues to escalate, regardless of how many words of encouragement I share with myself.
Didn't used to be like this when I was younger, but fear of getting lost has surely escalated with age. If I am with other hikers, I am much less afraid. In fact I don't give it much thought.
If I had lost the trail on Isolation, my gut tells me I would have called for help most likely in record time. These things always seem to happen as the sun starts to set. I do carry enough gear to not die of hypothermia straight away. I would have no problem staying put, as long as someone connected to SAR knew that I was lost. I can honestly say that my hiking mission is to NOT get lost, and I do take precautions, but strangely, each time it happened I did not expect it in the least.
DougPaul
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This only works if you have good reason to believe that someone will come looking for you, that they will have a reasonable idea of where to look, and you can last long enough for them to arrive.
Standard self-rescue advice used to be to go downhill. One will encounter a stream which will lead to a bigger one* etc which will eventually reach a town or cross a road. (This still works.) Besides, going downhill is easier than climbing uphill...
* Streams and rivers have the convenient property that they do not go around in circles.
However, the above assumes one is hiking in the mountains--if you are hiking in a canyon (eg Grand Canyon) going downhill might not be wise.
Doug
Brambor
Well-known member
it depends
Yes it depends but absent of any indicators that would invoke the depends clause I would head down and follow the.water until it crossed a road.
Yes it depends but absent of any indicators that would invoke the depends clause I would head down and follow the.water until it crossed a road.
This was prompted by the 'Hiker Lost Near Isolation' Thread. A
Speaking completely hypothetically, if you were 'lost', is it better to go up, or down?
Up requires more energy be expended, but could lead you to a summit with a known position, afford a better view of where you might be, or possibly to a trail.
Down could lead to water, trail, road, but also to just miles and miles of trees, with a limited view, possibly heading farther away from the searchers.
I suppose the answer, as always, is, "it depends!"
But if I was lost near Isolation, (a long walk to civilization), I might just head up, especially since the summit is open.
Nessmuk
Active member
NYSDEC web page tips:
"Each year, New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) Forest Rangers search for about 200 lost or stranded people."
I don't have the exact statistics, but I am certain that a very large percentage of those 200 lost are found within the first few hours (but when does hour #1 start?). Most of the rest are located before the end of the next day. The few searches you hear about that go much longer often have poor endings.
"Each year, New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) Forest Rangers search for about 200 lost or stranded people."
I don't have the exact statistics, but I am certain that a very large percentage of those 200 lost are found within the first few hours (but when does hour #1 start?). Most of the rest are located before the end of the next day. The few searches you hear about that go much longer often have poor endings.
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RoySwkr
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There is a previous note on this topic occasioned by the advice of some expert to go up for a better signal/more visible to air search, I'm surprised nobody remembers
It is very rare for me to have no idea what's the best way to get out, but if I was totally clueless and the area looked like the NE I would go downhill
It is very rare for me to have no idea what's the best way to get out, but if I was totally clueless and the area looked like the NE I would go downhill
This thread perhaps?? For the record, I stand by my comments there ... my a** is just as dumb now as it was 2 years ago.
SAR-EMT40
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The statistics I remember, and I can't put my hands on the reference right now is; 95% are found in the first 24 hours and 98% within 48 hours.
Keith
NewHampshire
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Personally I would run around in circles frantically screaming like a little girl before wetting myself....
....that or I would just walk back down the way I had come. But bushwhackers are never lost...just temporarily not where they think they are.
Brian
....that or I would just walk back down the way I had come. But bushwhackers are never lost...just temporarily not where they think they are.
Brian
Chip
Well-known member
To a point, right ? Then the cold will pool and you're actually better off a bit higher overnight.
If I had called it in and it was getting late, I'd hunker down. In the Whites I, personnally, would head higher if I could see well. (assuming no gps/map/mad dead reckoning skills/nunchuck skills/bowhunting skills/computer hacking skills...)
DougPaul
Well-known member
When in danger,
when in doubt,
run in circles,
scream and shout.
(An old Navy motto.)
Doug
Craig
New member
I believe in self-sufficiency
I always leave my itinerary with someone but realistically, a search probably wouldn't be initiated for a couple of days after not checking in. There is no way I'm going to stay put through a couple of nights hoping someone is going to come rescue me. I'm going to take responsibility for my own safety, stay calm and move in a direction that makes sense for the situation Im in.
I don't carry a cell phone while hiking so there would be little incentive for me to travel uphill. I would most likely travel downhill while trying to find a stream to follow and also have a source to drink from.
I always leave my itinerary with someone but realistically, a search probably wouldn't be initiated for a couple of days after not checking in. There is no way I'm going to stay put through a couple of nights hoping someone is going to come rescue me. I'm going to take responsibility for my own safety, stay calm and move in a direction that makes sense for the situation Im in.
I don't carry a cell phone while hiking so there would be little incentive for me to travel uphill. I would most likely travel downhill while trying to find a stream to follow and also have a source to drink from.
down.
the chances of finding a viewpoint sufficient enough for you to realize "oh! there i am!" is unlikely in my opinion. especially in the forested white mountains.
only case when i can think of going uphill is when you are in an area you've been before and know the trail crosses over the summit (an easily accessible summit) and you are very near the summit. so low probability of this.. but it's happened to me.
last winter i climbed lincoln's throat by myself.. i took a slightly different route during the hein bushwhack after the ice ended, but was sure i'd top out at around the same place. well, i topped out and couldn't see anything and all the sudden everything became unfamiliar. i wandered around in freezing temps and crazy wind trying to find the damn franconia ridge trail for a few minutes and then realized, "duh, you idiot, just go up".. if i went uphill i'd hit the summit of lincoln and catch the trail down. and that's what happened. but in that case, i was very close to the top and it was very easy to get to.
side note: interesting that in the place you've been to countless times, low visibility plays tricks on you. even on a ridge that seems like you've never get "lost" there because it's a ridge - not many places to wander.
but 99.9%.. i vote down.
the chances of finding a viewpoint sufficient enough for you to realize "oh! there i am!" is unlikely in my opinion. especially in the forested white mountains.
only case when i can think of going uphill is when you are in an area you've been before and know the trail crosses over the summit (an easily accessible summit) and you are very near the summit. so low probability of this.. but it's happened to me.
last winter i climbed lincoln's throat by myself.. i took a slightly different route during the hein bushwhack after the ice ended, but was sure i'd top out at around the same place. well, i topped out and couldn't see anything and all the sudden everything became unfamiliar. i wandered around in freezing temps and crazy wind trying to find the damn franconia ridge trail for a few minutes and then realized, "duh, you idiot, just go up".. if i went uphill i'd hit the summit of lincoln and catch the trail down. and that's what happened. but in that case, i was very close to the top and it was very easy to get to.
side note: interesting that in the place you've been to countless times, low visibility plays tricks on you. even on a ridge that seems like you've never get "lost" there because it's a ridge - not many places to wander.
but 99.9%.. i vote down.
Possibly up momemtarily if necessary if all other possibilities have proven moot to get a bearing; but eventually down..but of course it depends. Interestingly enough IMO the people whom are responding to this thread are probably the ones who would not get lost in the first place.
I'm going with "depends" (not the diapers) as well. In the NE, I would be more likely to follow a river or drainage down. As was stated, you can't really be more than a few miles from a road.
I've lost trails in the winter before, and just said "f-it" and gone straight up, in an effort to find a knoll or hilltop to get my bearings. Almost every time, the spot I was shooting for wasn't the clear view I thought, wasn't a true top, just a slope, etc.
However, in the instance of the person on Isolation, knowing the area where it appears she was lost and knowing how confusing it is, I would probably go UP since I am familiar with the gotchas and area enough. That is not always the case, however.
I've lost trails in the winter before, and just said "f-it" and gone straight up, in an effort to find a knoll or hilltop to get my bearings. Almost every time, the spot I was shooting for wasn't the clear view I thought, wasn't a true top, just a slope, etc.
However, in the instance of the person on Isolation, knowing the area where it appears she was lost and knowing how confusing it is, I would probably go UP since I am familiar with the gotchas and area enough. That is not always the case, however.
Little Rickie
New member
Early in the day I'd walk down the way I came. I'm on a trail right?
Too many trails to remember the way I came still early AM in the day, then down. I mean how lost can I get in a few hours that I can't walk downhill by night time.
No trail, no map, no compass or GPS? Well Darwin can decide but It be best to sit and make a fire.
Late in the day I'd make a fire and hang out.
Too many trails to remember the way I came still early AM in the day, then down. I mean how lost can I get in a few hours that I can't walk downhill by night time.
No trail, no map, no compass or GPS? Well Darwin can decide but It be best to sit and make a fire.
Late in the day I'd make a fire and hang out.
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erugs
New member
Can only remember one time I used my compass. I had it out to show someone and said something about "put the red in the shed." I was holding it out in front of me. North was behind me. My friend asked, "why does the red part have to face your, er, zipper.
Chip
Well-known member
I don't know. I had a similar experience to Leaf's a few years ago in the Adirondacks. All I had to do was go up. Guaranteed trail. If I had gone down, I may have located a trail...I also may have located a world of crap. Percentage of trails vs crap generally improves dramatically as you head up. Obviously not in a blizzard or hurricane and it does depend on how high you are, if you generally know the area, and all that. And think about some of the drainages in the northeast many here suggest using as a way out; tough to follow, difficult/impossible to cross, leads to wetlands, parallels the roads, etc.
You also need to start early and have a hard turn around time, regardless.
You also need to start early and have a hard turn around time, regardless.
una_dogger
Well-known member
It all depends on where you are when you first realize you are lost
-- closer to the top or bottom? If closer to the top, I'd opt to check it out first just to get a visual and any info-- can always head back down if none is found. Lots of answers to this question, for sure, and lots of different situations.
