USGS Disc question

[onrhodes]

Do all named peaks have a USGS disc on them? How about the wooded one's? Why aren't they always at the true peak?
I was hiking whiteface and Passaconaway this weekend and found the Whiteface disc in the open viewing area just before the actual summit.
However on Passaconaway I could not find any USGS disc anywhere.
I've noticed this on some of the other peaks that I have done, and just wondered if there was some sort of logic to it all?
Slow day at work, so I figured I would post this question and see what people know.

Thanks,
-Pete

 

[Double Bow]

The "disks" or benchmarks are survey markers. They are placed whereever USGS did a survet from which, quite often is not on the exact summit. It is also not done on every peak. Completely wooded peaks wouldn't have them since you can't see anything to measure from them.

 

[SteveHiker]

Some people get a little extreme over those things. This past summer on Mansfield, a woman and two men summited a few minutes after I did. The woman proclaimed that it doesn't count unless you step on the disk. They left after a few minutes. Myself and a couple of others at the summit got quite a kick out of that. It was quite clear that another spot two feet away was about 4 inches higher.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Some people get a little extreme over those things. This past summer on Mansfield, a woman and two men summited a few minutes after I did. The woman proclaimed that it doesn't count unless you step on the disk. They left after a few minutes. Myself and a couple of others at the summit got quite a kick out of that. It was quite clear that another spot two feet away was about 4 inches higher.

Gee, what do you do if there are 2 or 3 disks?

I never step on them, (guess most of my 115 doesn't count! ) but I usually try to find them and photograph them.

 

[MichaelJ]

This past summer on Mansfield, a woman and two men summited a few minutes after I did. The woman proclaimed that it doesn't count unless you step on the disk. They left after a few minutes. Myself and a couple of others at the summit got quite a kick out of that.

I made sure to step on that disc last Saturday.


(and yes, I know all about survey markers and recovering them and traverses and benchmarks, oh my!)

 

[Papa Bear]

Gee, what do you do if there are 2 or 3 disks?

There very often will be 2 or 3. The benchmak, called the Station Mark will usually have a little triangle with a dot in it in the middle, or a horizontal bar with a verticle bar crossing it.

The others are called Reference Marks and they will have arrows pointing at the station mark. Their purpose is to locate the station mark. they will usually be pretty close.

The station mark is generally placed a a point where the surveyor can spot mearby stations, typically other mountains, so it may be on an outcrop with a view, although most often it is on the highest point.

If you know the location (Lat/Lon) of the peak, you can find the benchmarks (if there are any) at NGS site.

Many organizations have set benchmarks besides the USGS. The ones I find interesting are the IBC marks.The IBC is the Internaytional Boundary Commision, which monumented and surveyed the US/Canadian border. Many peaks in Maine (and elsewhere) that are near the border have these disks. Just about any prominent peak within 10 miles (either direction) of the border will tend to have one.

 

[arghman]

Many organizations have set benchmarks besides the USGS. The ones I find interesting are the IBC marks.The IBC is the Internaytional Boundary Commision, which monumented and surveyed the US/Canadian border. Many peaks in Maine (and elsewhere) that are near the border have these disks. Just about any prominent peak within 10 miles (either direction) of the border will tend to have one.

Go visit the trail to Fourth Connecticut Lake just west of the Pittsburg NH border crossing. It traverses the boundary swath for a while. Fun to be in two countries at the same time.

 

[Rob S]

While hiking Windham High Peak in the Catskills a few years ago, I paused along the trail to retrieve something from my pack and happened to glance down at a rock a few feet off the trail and spied a benchmark on it. I don't believe that was the actual summit, although it could have been. The ridge is fairly flat and the benchmark was between the south viewpoint and the very nice northern viewpoint.

Anyway, the benchmark was almost completely hidden by brush* and I never would have seen it had I not stopped at that moment. Just posting this in case others haven't seen it ........ and want to see if they can find it.

*That was in 2002, ....... maybe the benchmark is easily visible now?? Or maybe it's completely hidden by brush???

 

[Papa Bear]

While hiking Windham High Peak in the Catskills a few years ago, I paused along the trail to retrieve something from my pack and happened to glance down at a rock a few feet off the trail and spied a benchmark on it. I don't believe that was the actual summit, although it could have been. The ridge is fairly flat and the benchmark was between the south viewpoint and the very nice northern viewpoint.

Anyway, the benchmark was almost completely hidden by brush* and I never would have seen it had I not stopped at that moment. Just posting this in case others haven't seen it ........ and want to see if they can find it.

If you pass that way again, clear the brush off and see if you can read the disk. The NGS database describes a benchmark and two reference marks located "on the highest point and at the E end of a mountain known as Windham High Peak". It was set in 1942.

Here is the data sheet for that station: Windham station

 

[Undershaft]

I too am curious about placement of benchmark discs. I found the one on Mt. Liberty out in the open and assumed Mt. Flume would have one placed in a similar manner, but there was none to be found. I don't make a point to step on the markers, but, like Tom Rankin, I photograph them if I can find 'em. I read on a thread here on VFTT that some USGS markers have been stolen, presumably for souveniers. I wonder if that happened on Mt. Flume? The marker on Liberty had been vandalized. The elevation had been scratched and gouged so that it was unreadable. Who would do that and why?

 

[Rich Owings]

Well, I hate to give any obsessive types a new hobby , but if you're interested in benchmarks, check this out. BTW, I try to find them on trips whenever possible to calibrate the barometic altimeter on my GPS (Garmin 60CS).

Rich Owings


"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

 

[Pete_Hickey]

The woman proclaimed that it doesn't count unless you step on the disk.

I used to tell my kids that. It was fun. They never took it seriously, but it added another little ritual to our climbs. When we finished the 46 together, we all put our foot on the disk at the same time. Just fun.

Gee, what do you do if there are 2 or 3 disks?

We had great fun on Dix. There are four of them there.

 

[Mark Schaefer]

While hiking Windham High Peak in the Catskills a few years ago, I paused along the trail to retrieve something from my pack and happened to glance down at a rock a few feet off the trail and spied a benchmark on it. I don't believe that was the actual summit, although it could have been. The ridge is fairly flat and the benchmark was between the south viewpoint and the very nice northern viewpoint.

Anyway, the benchmark was almost completely hidden by brush* and I never would have seen it had I not stopped at that moment. Just posting this in case others haven't seen it ........ and want to see if they can find it.

*That was in 2002, ....... maybe the benchmark is easily visible now?? Or maybe it's completely hidden by brush???

I was on Windham yesterday, and spent some time looking. The Reference Mark 1 is just north of the trail on a raised sloping rock - doubtful that it has ever been covered by brush. It is a short distance from the viewpoint at the east end of the mountain. The reference arrow points generally west, and in the direction of the trail. I am sure that I saw the main benchmark years ago along the trail. Unfortunately I neglected to bring a printout of the NGS datasheet posted by Papa Bear. The original 1942 NGS report mentions a solitary pine (we'll take that as a generic pine as they are not native to this section of the Catskills). There are several lone spruce trees in that area, none that would be 63 years old though. I think I may have seen the raised rock mentioned by the reports, and it was covered by vegetation. Reference Mark 2 is probably well off the trail. It is possible that Reference Mark 1 is at the highpoint, hard to say as the summit is very flat. The main benchmark is probably near the center of the flat summit.

The Windham NGS datasheet also mentions the benchmark on Pisgah, which I have seen several times. It is very close to the Long Path in a reforestation area. I have seen historic pictures of the old hotel atop Pisgah, which included a third floor observatory. The 1942 NGS report mentions it was in ruins. Currently the ruins are gone, although there may be remnants in the reforestation area.

 

[Rob S]

Thanks for your post, Mark.

The Reference Mark 1 is just north of the trail on a raised sloping rock - doubtful that it has ever been covered by brush.

I wish I had taken pictures of it. I suppose I could be recalling the moment incorrectly ....... I may have been a few yards down the trail and been standing where my view of the rock was obscured by trailside brush, rather than the rock being covered with brush. At any rate, glad you found it.

 

[imarchant]

Do all named peaks have a USGS disc on them? How about the wooded one's? Why aren't they always at the true peak?

Definately not all peaks have markers, but I have seen several on wooded summits. A lot of the USGS survey was done in the 1940s, The summits may have been open at that time. I wouldn't be surprised if trees were cut for the measuments to be made. The USGS maps will show the symbol for the markers.

topozone is an easy to use tool to checkout the USGS maps, these maps show most, if not all of the markers. Once you see these symbols on the map you can search for it using the I also just found the USGS mapping tool. Very cool, check it out, lots of information USGS National Mapper Once you have located a marker on the map or in the field use the links Papabear and Rich Owings provided to get more information than you need. .

PS. My avitar is at North Dome in the Catskills, there is a Benchmark at that location.

 

[el-bagr]

Isolation has one. I kissed it.

Dirty thing!

 

[kltilton]

Isolation has one. I kissed it.

Dirty thing!

That's funny, I peed on it. JK, I haven't been there yet.

 

[kltilton]

I forgot to add that one fo my former co-workers used to work on the Boundary Line Commission for the Canadian government. He said it was interesting work but tiring when you're constantly hauling in all of you own supplies including concrete mix to create boundary markers!