VFTT peak list

[carole]

I received this in an email (from Steve Smith). I'll let others comment and I'll update the list (post #1) later when I have time.

"That 360 view list is a neat idea. Were you intending to include peaks with trails only? If bushwhack summits were included it would certainly expand the list, but perhaps not the popularity!
Here are a few possibilities to add. Have to rely on memory and notes and in some cases photos, since looking for an absolute 360 wasn't in mind at the time. If I think of others I'll send them along.

Hew Hampshire, with trails:
North Baldface (South is already on it)
Eagle Crag (Jeremy/Rocket mentioned this one also when he was in the other day)
First Sister (Middle is already on it)
Mt. Kearsarge (or is it not on because of the tower)

The next two are 360s but the nomenclature qualification is somewhat uncertain:
South Peak of Resolution (if that's considered a "name", it's not named on the USGS map; true summit of Resolution is not 360; the short side trail to South Peak is almost a whack)
The highest of "The Howks" on Madison ("The Howks" name is shown on RMC and Washburn maps, referring in general to the bumps on Howker Ridge; the 4th and highest one is a nice bare little peak)

New Hampshire, no trail:
Sachem Peak on Sandwich (there is a wee bit of scrub looking SW)

New Hampshire, probably don't qualify:
Middle Sugarloaf (bare, but you have to walk around quite a bit to see in all directions)
Sugarloaf/Benton (Been up there a few times, my notes indicate there are views in most directions, but not from one spot)
The Hogsback next to Sugarloaf is close to 360, but the view N is partly blocked.
Another close one is little Rattlesnake in Rumney.

Speaking of Sugarloaves, for the Sugarloaf in Nash Stream my notes from 1987 talk of a 360, but recent photos I found online show trees restricting part of the view.

Maine, with trails:
South Turner (Baxter)
Barrell Ridge?? (Baxter - remember it being open, but don't recall if it's really a 360)

Maine, without trails (all in Baxter; of course, the Park Authority would frown upon these being on a list):
Ones I've done:
Little Peaked Mtn.
Big Peaked Mtn.
Black Brook Mtns. (tiny bit of scrub on flat shoulder looking NE)
Billfish Mtn., West Peak

Ones I haven't done but look like 360s:
Mullen Mtn.
South Traveler?? (in addition to main summit, North Traveler and Peak of Ridges)
Bald Mtn. (near Traveler)
Maybe North Turner??
The Maine whackers could probably come up with quite a few more around the state.

Seems the ADK stalwarts could come up with quite a few more over there, as well. I remember East Dix/Grace Peak and South Dix/Carson Peak as being open and rocky, but that was 20 years ago and I can't recall whether they had 360s. There might also be several among the lower ledgy peaks on the east side of the Dix Range.
The Catskills have some great views, but to my knowledge they're all of the 180-degree variety due to the sedimentary rock structure. The closest to a 360 I've seen in my fairly limited hiking there is North Point on the Escarpment Trail, but that's a shoulder and not a summit.
Any of the whacking legends (Roy S., John Swanson, Dennis Crispo, E. Schlimmer, PinPin et al) could add quite a few to the list!
Thanks for getting this going - it's good stuff!
Steve S."

 

[nartreb]

Yeah, I was pretty sure about North Baldface but it's been a while. Among smaller peaks in the Baldface Range, both Eagle Crag and Baldface Knob belong on the list.

view from N Baldface to Eagle Crag


(There are other small peaks in New Hampshire I haven't been on but look like good candidates: the Sisters on Chocorua, Shelburne Moriah). If the Howker Ridge peak qualifies as named, it's valid. Ditto for the Castles on Jefferson.

In Maine, I've been on most of the Travelers and I think they all (def. including PoR) qualify. I'll check my photos.
Yep, N Traveler: trees near, but views clear.
Traveler Summit: qualifies
S Traveler: I'm not sure.
Peak of Ridges: qualifies

South Turner definitely qualifies.

Not sure if it's officially named, but the Outlook on North Traveler has a 360:
the Outlook

So do the Howe peaks on Katahdin.

 

[RoySwkr]

First Sister (Middle is already on it)

Middle Sister is not an official name and tower base may block part of view anyway

 

[carole]

I have updated the list (in post# 1). I also tried to put them in a better order for easier reading. Corrections and additions are continued to be accepted. Thanks everyone who has shown interest. I hope it gives some ideas for some great hikes.

"That 360 view list is a neat idea. Were you intending to include peaks with trails only? If bushwhack summits were included it would certainly expand the list, but perhaps not the popularity!”

I’m up for including bushwhacks if they lead to a 360 summit but I question how many there actually are.

“Mt. Kearsarge (or is it not on because of the tower)”

If the tower does not obstruct the view, i.e. you can move your head to see around it then I think it should count. The same should go for a tree. But if you have to move other then in a circle to get the view then it is obstructed.

“The next two are 360s but the nomenclature qualification is somewhat uncertain:
South Peak of Resolution (if that's considered a "name", it's not named on the USGS map; true summit of Resolution is not 360; the short side trail to South Peak is almost a whack)
The highest of "The Howks" on Madison ("The Howks" name is shown on RMC and Washburn maps, referring in general to the bumps on Howker Ridge; the 4th and highest one is a nice bare little peak)”

I think we have to stick to named peaks otherwise every bump with a view comes in to play. Although I think it is a bonus to do the hike on an open ridge like the Howker or Castle ridges to add to the time out in the open.

 

[nartreb]

My suggestion for towers, is that if the tower is within a few walking paces of the highest point, the peak counts if you get a 360 view by walking around the base of the tower (within arms' reach of the tower). If the tower is not within a few paces of the summit, the peak only qualifies if you can get a 360 from the summit (possible if the summit is higher than the top of the tower).

By this rule, one tower on the exact summit is allowed so long as the peak would qualify if the tower magically disappeared, but multiple towers or buildings (eg, Mt Washington) will just about always disqualify a peak.

I suppose the same rule could work for trees, with some attention paid to limiting the diameter of the clumps of vegetation you're allowed to circle. But I'm inclined to treat towers more leniently than trees. The definition of 360 is "no trees"; we've decided that you're not allowed to climb towers, so now we have to do something about towers that actually occupy the highest point, like Cardigan - it would be unfair to exclude it just because someone built a tower on it. The rule stated above accomplishes this.

 

[RoySwkr]

By this rule, one tower on the exact summit is allowed so long as the peak would qualify if the tower magically disappeared,

Does it matter if the tower is a steel grid like Cardigan which you can mostly see through or solid like Avery Peak which you can't? Your rule might add Deasey Mtn for instance.

Then of course there are seasonal issues. The summit of Jackson NH does not have 360 views in summer (and is probably in a spruce thicket with no views) but in February there was several feet of drifted snow in the thicket which I climbed for a 360 view.

 

[nartreb]

My rule is designed to apply to any tower regardless of its construction. If it's perfectly see-through, the peak already qualifies (or fails) based on the view alone, and the rule doesn't change the result. (I've never seen a completely see-through tower.... but then how could I?) If it's not perfectly see-through, or even if it's solid granite, the peak may qualify by walking around the base of the tower.

I don't think Deasey qualifies - there seems to be at least one tree well above the horizon (directly behind the cabin in this photo

Snow cap is a good question - I don't have an opinion, maybe Carole does.

 

[sardog1]

Fifteen minutes of fame for VFTT

Dickerman's on the tale:

"The very newest list in the making is one that has been proposed by on-line members of the "Views From the Top" hiking forum. The working title of this list is the "Northeast 360" list, or some variation of that, and it includes only summits that have a 360-degree view. Bear in mind this is truly a work in progress as peaks are being added as we speak and rules are still being debated. Acknowledging that, here's a quick early draft of the New Hampshire summits pegged for inclusion, plus some of the rules hikers would have to adhere to if they hoped to qualify as "360" members."

More from his column today in Foster's Daily Democrat at Mike Dickerman: Searching a mountain of information online.

 

[carole]

Nice! Thanks for the link sardog1. And thank you Mike Dickerman.

 

[rocket21]

I haven't been following this thread too closely, so I apologize if I missed something, but what about Foss Mountain's north peak?

 

[Amicus]

. . . what about Foss Mountain's north peak?

Nearly a 360, but the (wooded) true summit, about a quarter-mile to the south, blocks the view in that direction.

Here's one for you - Mt. Cutler in Hiram, Maine? There are some trees at the very top, but if you walk around the mostly open summit area, I think you would aggregate a 360.

 

[carole]

My suggestion for towers, is that if the tower is within a few walking paces of the highest point, the peak counts if you get a 360 view by walking around the base of the tower (within arms' reach of the tower).

Here's one for you - Mt. Cutler in Hiram, Maine? There are some trees at the very top, but if you walk around the mostly open summit area, I think you would aggregate a 360.

See Post# 64 “If the tower does not obstruct the view, i.e. you can move your head to see around it then I think it should count. The same should go for a tree. But if you have to move other then in a circle to get the view then it is obstructed.”

In a circle means turning while standing in one spot.

See Post# 1 “should be from one spot on the summit not from moving to different points on the summit.

 

[carole]

Then of course there are seasonal issues. The summit of Jackson NH does not have 360 views in summer (and is probably in a spruce thicket with no views) but in February there was several feet of drifted snow in the thicket which I climbed for a 360 view.

Snow cap is a good question - I don't have an opinion, maybe Carole does.

If the summit is naturally elevated by snow (not man-made pile) and you get a 360 that is a bonus peak because often the open summits don’t accumulate much buildup due to wind. Obviously they can’t be listed as each winter may be different thus unpredictable.

You’ll have to post your pictures for evidence (or have signed documentation by at least two witnesses.)

 

[mtnpa]

What a cool list.

I see no possible way to include Owl's Head

And Donna may have to go to Coe more than once

 

[nartreb]

See Post# 64 “If the tower does not obstruct the view, i.e. you can move your head to see around it then I think it should count. The same should go for a tree. But if you have to move other then in a circle to get the view then it is obstructed.”

In a circle means turning while standing in one spot.

This goes back to Roy's question about see-through towers. Cardigan doesn't qualify under Carole's rule (though it would under mine). There is now a cinderblock shed under the platform, too wide to lean around.

recent photo

Note it probably would have qualified in the past, before the shed was built - those steel supports look thin enough that you could get 360 coverage from parallax just by leaning a bit.

older photot

 

[RoySwkr]

If the summit is naturally elevated by snow (not man-made pile) and you get a 360 that is a bonus peak because often the open summits don’t accumulate much buildup due to wind. Obviously they can’t be listed as each winter may be different thus unpredictable.

You’ll have to post your pictures for evidence (or have signed documentation by at least two witnesses.)

The open summits don't accumulate much snow, but those with spruce thickets on top may I think I remember enough snow on Carter Dome for example.

Another example of this is the avatar somebody has that he claims to be Mt Lethe, I'm not sure that spot has a 360 in summer but with the snow he appears to be above it. Of course I still don't believe that spot to be the true Mt Lethe

 

[carole]

Thank you, nartreb, for the photos of Cardigan. I'm taking it off the list.

I think I remember enough snow on Carter Dome for example.

I was on Carter Dome in a deep snow, and while I recall a view it wasn't a 360. Perhaps someone has some pictures?

 

[carole]

I have edited the first post again as a recent hike revealed that Whiteface Mt. in the Belknap Range does not have a 360 view. It had been more than a few years since I was there and the growth of trees has made quite a difference.

As always any additions or corrections are welcome.