Water Bottles -- 2022

[ChrisB]

Hey folks,

There seems to be a new generation of insulated liquid carriers available. Heres my question...

Are my Nalgenes nestled inside my zippered foam cozies old technology? Is there a better performing alternative you'd recommend?

What water carriers are you winter wanders using this season?

 

[Rhody Seth]

I finally got insulated carriers for all the sizes of my nalgene so I'm good. Don't tell me there's something new!

 

[nartreb]

I've been using vacuum insulation (a.k.a. Thermos) for many years. A bit heavier than some alternatives, but much more effective.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

So, Nalgene + Cozy is the map + compass of hydration technology? Or is it GPS? I can't keep up.



Tim
p.s. I have the same two Nalgenes and cozies I've had forever. But I do use the vacuum bottle for XC skiing because it's convenient and it fits in the small backpack bottle carrier.

 

[TCD]

Big fat thermos full of cappuccino and bottle of captain fits in big backpack. Too heavy? Get stronger.

 

[psyculman]

Big fat thermos full of cappuccino and bottle of captain fits in big backpack. Too heavy? Get stronger.

I never thought of that, thanks!

 

[Mac]

bottle of captain

Or Jack, depending on preference

 

[B the Hiker]

I love the fact you asked for a serious answer on this forum!

Since I've owned them for years, I still use water bottles in cozies. The problem is that every time I drink from one, the entire bottle is exposed to the cold. Honesty, they work well enough.

My hiking buddy purchased a thermos with a plastic cap that has a small screw-off opening, and it allows him to drink off plastic and not metal, and since the entire bottle is the thermos, it doesn't get colder being exposed while he drinks from it. He also has the older system.

I think, knowing what he knows now, that he might go just with the thermos system, both for the better insulation and also for the smaller opening (I routinely manage to spill while drinking from a wide-mouth bottle).

 

[jfb]

Hey folks,

There seems to be a new generation of insulated liquid carriers available.

I guess you are asking if a neoprene bottle holder works better than the OR foam bottle parka? I don't know.

https://nalgene.com/product/32oz-sleeve-insulated-gray/

 

[hikerbrian]

Several friends of mine, particularly the ones who have gotten into winter hiking in the past 5 yrs, have Hydroflasks. I don't observe them to be universally loved by their users. Liked, perhaps, but not loved. Stuff stays hotter for longer. But they weigh a lot. I like to hang my Nalgene in its foam insulator from the shoulder strap of my pack (down near my waist) for easy access. I haven't seem people do this with the Hydroflask, so I'm not sure how strong that loop on the top is; also the metal of a Hydroflask banging around might be kind of uncomfortable. I find that if I put boiling water into my Nalgenes, the one on my hip is plenty hot for the first half of the day, and the one buried in my pack comes out plenty hot to start the second half of the day, even in the coldest weather. I've brought a thermos of hot chocolate or soup sometimes, but I don't find those items quite satisfying enough to justify the weight/space. My one luxury item is usually real tissues. Heaven. YMMV. Anyway for me, a Hydroflask solves a problem I don't have, creates another one (how to hang it), and costs weight and money. Having seen how they work for my friends, I'm not currently tempted to spend the money. Maybe if I didn't have a crop of perfectly functional Nalgenes already. Also, I accept that I'm sooooooo 1997.

 

[JoshandBaron]

I guess you are asking if a neoprene bottle holder works better than the OR foam bottle parka? I don't know.

https://nalgene.com/product/32oz-sleeve-insulated-gray/

Hard no, they do not work nearly as well. The inability to place the bottle upside down is a deal breaker on that particular sleeve. If there's a better Nalgene solution than the OR parka I haven't found it.

 

[peakbagger]

Ragged Mountain used to sell a bottle holder made out of closed cell foam with flip down top that was superior to the OR designs that use open cell foam. The Ragged Mountain units did not get wet or iced up like the ORs can. Both of mine were lost in the woods so I grudgingly went back to OR as Ragged hasnt made their design for years. I think it came down to they could not make a profit, making gear like that locally.

 

[DayTrip]

Ragged Mountain used to sell a bottle holder made out of closed cell foam with flip down top that was superior to the OR designs that use open cell foam. The Ragged Mountain units did not get wet or iced up like the ORs can. Both of mine were lost in the woods so I grudgingly went back to OR as Ragged hasnt made their design for years. I think it came down to they could not make a profit, making gear like that locally.

Was the Ragged Mountain design like this: https://40below.com/product/forty-below-insulated-bottle-cover-and-holder-in-1-liter-size/

I've had a bunch of Hydroflasks and tried Thermos products and I clearly must be doing something wrong because I've never been able to keep anything hot in them. Luke warm on a less than frigid day? Yah, kinda. Hot after any length of time? No. And I do preheat/condition them with hot water. Doesn't seem to matter. Does not seem worth the weight penalty to me. Even the Thermos I occasionally leave in my car with a meal for after a hike (the model I have fits inside an OR coozie) is generally luke warnm at best, even in modest temps. It does sit in the Thermos for 12-14 hours between drive time and hike time. All the "keeps contents hot for 24 hours" marketing stuff on these products is total horse-excrement in my opinion.

I, like hikerbrian, do the boiling water in a Nalgene with an OR coozie. They survive my 3-4 hour ride to the trail head and go well into the day unless it is severely cold. Never had one freeze. Like other types as you drink from them and the contents diminish the rate of cooling increases. I hang them on the base of my shoulder straps so they hang out of the way and stay reasonably secure in that "notch" where the hip belt meets the pack. When I want a drink I can slide it right up the strap, take the bottle out, drink from it, and then let it slide back out of the way into the notch. Doesn't hit my legs or affect my walking at all.

 

[bignslow]

For hiking I'm still a strong proponent of 2 liters of water for all but the longest days. One in a bottle coozy on the shoulder strap, and one wrapped in my layers in the pack.

Now that I do more backcountry skiing than winter hiking, I have a dedicated backcountry ski pack with integrated bladder holder and insulated (inside the shoulder strap) tube routing. Other than one day (in the teens) where I forgot to zip the pouch, I've had no problems with tubes freezing (down to the single digits). I've also converted my winter XC ski and fat biking bag to a system that adds tube insulation (so far, so good). Given that I was very outspoken against hydration bladders in winter, this is still an experiment, and for any serious objectives, I'd probably still defer to bottles (though I do find myself drinking more and staying better hydrated with the bladders).

 

[TCD]

So a more serious answer:

Bottle in a coozy works. I agree that I seldom need more than 2l.

Bottle in a coozy with a chemical hand heater is very sure to remain thawed, even though it's a little wasteful.

I have not had good luck with drinking tubes in winter; I resign myself to bottles.

There are some new thermoses out there that look good; some friends have them; I have not yet done the research.

 

[peakbagger]

The Ragged MTN design was different than the 40 below. It was cylindrical wrap of ensolite foam (similar to product to what is used in military sleeping mats)with a circular plug on the bottom of the cylinder and a similar plug on top. It was covered with cordura inside and out. The top plug was hinged on to flip up and down. the cordura extended up past the top plug and was drawn in with a draw string. It had a large belt loop (no velcro). It was less convenient to remove the bottle and replace it then the OR design but IMO it was a better at insulation.

The big new thing in insulated water bottles are not that new but marketed more heavily are stainless steel vacuum bottles which have been around for years. The only real change is a wider mouth. The production was offshored decades ago so thanks to cheap labor, a marketing company like Yeti and Hydroflask spend bundles on marketing to make them cool and sell them at a significant markup. They are made from stainless steel so there will be weight penalty. The wider mouths are less efficient at heat retention as the larger diameter cap is going to be less efficient than the bottle. If you trust the seal, the bottle should be kept upside down so that the less efficient cap is on the bottom.

The only real improvement in insulation in recent history are aerogels and they really do not match the needs for the hiking public as they are fragile.

I suppose some motivated person with access to the thermal scanner could have "Bake Off" to see which one is the best.

BTW when I led and participated in Meetup type hikes, frozen water tubes were a persistent and ongoing problem. I think those committed to those systems figure out what works for them but as is frequently the case without some actual field experience, new owners are less successful at keeping them thawed.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I will add that, in my experience:

• A hot beverage (coffee, cocoa, soup) in a steel vacuum bottle ("Thermos") in my pack will stay hot (too host to drink immediately upon pouring) for more than half the day, including a 2-ish hour drive.
• Boiled water in Nalgene + cozy will be still warm by the time I crack open that bottle.
• Hydration tubes will work if you are diligent. The margin for error is much higher than a bottle.

Tim

 

[jfb]

Hard no, they do not work nearly as well. The inability to place the bottle upside down is a deal breaker on that particular sleeve. If there's a better Nalgene solution than the OR parka I haven't found it.

Thanks for the warning. My options are: 1-liter Nalgene bottles in OR parkas, 12-ounce stainless steel vacuum bottle, 750-ml Sigg water bottle (not insulated) and 500-ml Sigg water bottle (not insulated). The vacuum bottle and 500-ml Sigg bottle will fit in an OR parka (not both at once), and all but the Nalgene bottles will fit in my spare mittens.

 

[TEO]

One Nalgene full of hot Gookinaid goes in a discontinued Granite Gear Aquatherm insulated bottle holder strapped to the exterior of my winter pack and another is buried in the pack, usually under my Feathered Friends down jacket. A thermos full of hot Constant Comment tea with a significant pour of Vermont Maple Syrup is also stashed in the pack. Freezing is never an issue.

 

[hikerbrian]

When I want a drink I can slide it right up the strap, take the bottle out, drink from it, and then let it slide back out of the way into the notch. Doesn't hit my legs or affect my walking at all.

I'm convinced it is the most efficient motion possible. It's practically a perpetual motion machine.

The only downside is that since I've finished drinking and storing my Nalgene pretty much before we've even stopped, I'm constantly being asked, "Hey Brian, can you grab that bottle out of the side pocket of my pack real quick?" And then, "Can I bother you to shove it back in there again." And usually "in there" means a tiny pocket stretched so tight to the side of the pack that it would barely fit a credit card under normal circumstances. The struggle is real.