west point invades Harriman state Park!

[woodstrider]

Now the hiking public has to contend with west point cadets doing exercises in Harriman State Park!

Two weeks ago I was tucked away in an off the beaten path spot in the Park when, all day, wave after wave of camo'ed atired face painted cadets came crashing thru the laurels and past my lunch spot.

This was not the first time that I've seen a military presence in the Park.

I spoke to several of the cadets, who are very polite, and they told me that they were doing some kind of orienteering execise and that they were from west point.

What the hell? Can we go hiking in the many acres of west point property now?

 

[Billy]

I don't understand. What's the problem?

 

[TEO]

I understand.

 

[Tuggy]

I don't see much problem whether it is cadets or an orienteering club. Its always nice to have the woods to ourselves but that doesn't seem to be how it works as a general rule.

 

[banjolady]

loved the cadets -they were very sweet and polite..called me "ma'am" and all...thought it was rather amusing that they were given a rather sketchy map and were supposed to navigate by using their maps and compasses in an area which is totally full of blazed trails. some got totally lost and i played the devil of temptation by offering them a trail map to look at...it was really hot the week i saw them and they were suffering for sure. never a dull moment in harriman--whether it's rattlesnakes, bears, scads of cadets, a camp full of kids, a korean church group or a naked man popping out of the trees to ask directions to the swim spot, this park is well loved and well used.

 

[Jay H]

Now the hiking public has to contend with west point cadets doing exercises in Harriman State Park!

Two weeks ago I was tucked away in an off the beaten path spot in the Park when, all day, wave after wave of camo'ed atired face painted cadets came crashing thru the laurels and past my lunch spot.

This was not the first time that I've seen a military presence in the Park.

I spoke to several of the cadets, who are very polite, and they told me that they were doing some kind of orienteering execise and that they were from west point.

What the hell? Can we go hiking in the many acres of west point property now?

West Point also has a cycling club and they do a race in Harriman on Lake Welch->Tiorati Brook-.Seven Lakes Drive.

They do have land over by Peekskill but you might want to avoid the live artillery drills so hike carefully

The Silver Mine area, if I remember when doing a adventure race when I lived in NJ is somewhat of an official orienteering course..

Jay

 

[paul ron]

2 Weeks ago I was at the boat launch on Sabago lake. The parking lot had a few camo military trucks n a Hummer loaded with guys dressed in camo and Alice packs. The camo was so good I almost ran a couple of em over laying in the weeds as I tried going around the truck, didn't notice em till they moved.

I got to talking to a few of em and they were very polite n seemed like a great bunch of fellows. They were doing a survival course.

.

 

[Maddy]

As I stood near two very young air force men in Starbuck's the other day, I found my eyes filling up. I was thinking how young they were, just starting out, and how they could very well end up as casualties of war in record time.
IMHO whatever the country can do to help educate, train, and make it as safe as possible for them, I'm for it.
They can do it in my back yard if it will help.
Perhaps being in a lovely place like Harriman is the most fun they will have for some time to come. Maybe it even nourishes their souls, and gives them fond memories, even though it is "school work".
If I see a soldier, I try to take a moment to thank them for their service to our country. I never had one not light up with a smile and thank me.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

Maneuvers

Back in the mid-1990s one of the remoter and ruggeder parts of Cardigan State Forest where we maintain the trails was used for weekend maneuvers by C Company 3rd Battalion 172nd Infantry (Mtn) of the NH Army National Guard. It is a 1/2 hr drive from their armory and they got to do lots of climbing/rappelling work to keep their skills sharp and themselves ready for high-angle work, as well as just general infantry tactics. It was an honor for us to maintain/restore the trails they used, when they used any. Relations were very cordial, they are quite professional. They gave us their unit badge (I think in America they call them crests) which is now on our crew banner as a token of thanks. It is a green hill below a range of four white peaks under a blue sky. Superimposed is a short sword vertical over a ski pole and an ice ax crossed. Below all is their motto "ASCEND TO VICTORY." Around 2000 the unit was moved to another armory closer to where most or their recruits come from in order to improve retention of these highly motivated and valuable men. Mountain soldiers don't grow on every spruce...
Whatever we can do to help the defenders of our country and civilization we will, and gladly.
Creag nan drochaid, Cardigan Highlanders Volunteer Trail Crew

 

[rup]

I have heard that there are rattlesnakes in Harriman, but their location seems a closely guarded secret. You've seen a few on the trails??

 

[Jay H]

I almost stepped on a timber rattler, big one too, in Harriman!

They are federally protected so their whereabouts are probably reasonable guarded. We have them in the Taconics too and I have seen them around the trails here...

Jay

 

[NorthShore]

I have heard that there are rattlesnakes in Harriman, but their location seems a closely guarded secret. You've seen a few on the trails??

I took these photos in Harriman almost 5 years ago. It was an overnighter and I saw rattlesnakes on two consecutive days. FWIW, I haven't seen one since, but I'm pretty sure that they are still there.

I have no problem with snakes or cadets; it's good to see both there.

 

[Peakbagr]

Herpetologists and others who want to protect these beautiful creatures try to keep the den locations secret. Collectors and those who fear the timbers can wipe out a hibernaculum that has been around for decades. Historically the timbers have been slaughtered out of fear and the areas around den sites often attract people who do not want them to survive in peace.

And gorgeous photos.

 

[NorthShore]

Herpetologists and others who want to protect these beautiful creatures try to keep the den locations secret. Collectors and those who fear the timbers can wipe out a hibernaculum that has been around for decades. Historically the timbers have been slaughtered out of fear and the areas around den sites often attract people who do not want them to survive in peace.

And gorgeous photos.

My bad. I thought the photos old enough and the description generic enough to not pose a problem, but it hadn't occured to me that they might keep to the same locations for decades. I removed the generic location information that had previously been in the post.

Glad you liked the photos.

 

[Peakbagr]

No harm done. Lots of folks know there are Timbers in Harriman. Good idea to stay away from specifics though. The snakes leave their dens in spring, migrate to their hunting areas, and return as the days get shorter and cooler in the fall. Very vulnerable coming in and coming out of a densite. And gravid females stay near the den sites upon emerging. Collectors or other intending them harm can wipe out a hibernaculum and some prowl the internet for denning sites.
A good friend recommended Landscape with Reptile by Thomas Palmer, about the history of Timbers in New England, in particular MA. Wonderfully written and hard to put down. If you like or are curious about rattlesnakes this is the book for you.
Really raises your sense of awareness of just how poorly man has treated the Timbers, wiping them out in much of their former range.

 

[John H Swanson]

I don't understand. What's the problem?

Technically, off trail travel is prohibited in Harriman.

 

[paul ron]

That's interesting you say off trail is illegal. I don't go there often but I do hear they are very strict about rules.

I can't seem to find the official rules for Harrimen, maybe you have a link?

.

 

[John H Swanson]

That's interesting you say off trail is illegal. I don't go there often but I do hear they are very strict about rules.

I can't seem to find the official rules for Harrimen, maybe you have a link?

.

http://www.njpalisades.org/pipc_regs.pdf

Page 5, letter (i) "use of established ways"

as with many laws in our fine country, compliance and enforcement varies. I would estimate compliance to this law exceeds the compliance to the 55mph speed limit. Which is to ay more people speed than hike off trail in Harriman. I have no significant data on enforcement, but know of at least two occasions where a violators were let go with a warning. So compared to the enforcement of swimming prohibited in lakes, this law seems to me less enforced.

 

[Tom Rankin]

http://www.njpalisades.org/pipc_regs.pdf

Could the military have obtained permission to go off trail?

 

[John H Swanson]

Could the military have obtained permission to go off trail?

I think that might be possible.

I know there is a part of the park just north of lake tiorati that is a designated area the park has used to allow orienteering events. I'm not sure if there is an official designation of this area or if it is just used as a matter of practice.

I'm don't think this is the only area used for official orientering events as I have seen orienteering events being run in other parts of the park and assume they were occuring with approval.

I know that some routine hikers of the park have enquired about the "use of established ways" rule with the intention of getting approval or permission to travel off trail. Suffice to say, the rule still exists.