When does a memorial become trash in a backcountry setting?

[peakbagger]

Every so often while hiking I run into various memorials generally left on mountain tops. I believe they were placed with great care and had great significance to those that placed them. Inevitably they deteriorate and end up resembling trash. Recently I have seen or heard of a few recent memorials to a fallen soldier that consists of a small American flag with a laminated sheet on it. Realsitically its not going to take long before the flag get soaked and blown over. Other memorials I have seen in the recent past are nailed into trees and others are laminated onto small rocks that were carried up. When these are placed I expect the folks doing it are in grieving process and don't consider the impact of leaving these.

Others can have the debate on whether it is right or wrong to place private memorials on public land on undeveloped summits, just as some debate the building of roadside memorials. What I would like opinions on is when do these memorials become trash to be removed ?

In the past it appears as though there weren't really policies governing the installation of permanent plaques on the summits and on occasion I run into recent attempts to make permanent memorials but the issue of my concern are the temporary ones. Generally laminated paper has a half life of about 2 or 3 months on a mountain top as the makers didn't use acid free archival paper. The paper slowly stains up and usually bubbles appear in the lamination and eventually water leaks into paper from the edges. This almost always occurs over a winter season and usually what is left the next spring would definitely be regarded as trash by most. Unfortunately "trash" of any kind tends to encourage more trash so ultimately these memorials tend to encourage other litter if they aren't used to make a bootleg fire in a bootleg campsite.

Generally, my approach is to remove these items when they have become deteriorated but its on definite case by case basis.

 

[bignslow]

When does a memorial become trash in a backcountry setting?

IMHO: Immediately.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

See also this thread from 2007 on the same subject

Tim

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I just re-read the thread Tim referred to above, and think it explores the topic in some detail.

Frankly, I hope the moderators don't allow this thread to deteriorate. It may be headed in that direction already.

 

[peakbagger]

I had read the prior thread in the past and it seemed to be directed toward permanent memorials. This thread was more intended towards less permanent versions.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

The major difference is that the average hiker can pick up and carry out these temporary flags / laminated cards quite easily, whereas the permanently mounted ones require some tools to remove.

One could argue that Flags on the 48 memorials, while temporary and carried out, are litter for the 2 hours they are set up. Everything is temporary, even the mountains themselves, if your timeline is long enough.

Tim

 

[RoySwkr]

In the past it appears as though there weren't really policies governing the installation of permanent plaques on the summits and on occasion I run into recent attempts to make permanent memorials but the issue of my concern are the temporary ones. ...

Generally, my approach is to remove these items when they have become deteriorated but its on definite case by case basis.

As near as I can tell they are legally litter and can be removed by FS personnel or authorized adopters. Litter removal by random hikers is I believe technically illegal although the fear of arrest has not kept me from picking up candy wrappers, etc. I guess I would ignore them as long as they are in good shape but if their condition becomes disrespectful to the honoree they are probably best removed.

 

[TJsName]

The question is raises is interesting. Does someone in mourning have the right to create a memorial wherever they want? Probably not. But most of us are human, so it is complicated. There are instances of impromptu memorials being set-up on a temporary basis (think about the huge memorial on Boylston after the Boston Marathon). It was eventually moved. It would have been disrespectful to allow it to deteriorate, and become a nuisance to people in the area.

If someone or a group decides to put up a temporary memorial on public ground without approval I would think the same procedure should apply. If the memorial is just left to fall into disrepair it would be better if it was never placed at all. The point of a memorial is to remember, so a forgotten memorial seems doubly sad to me. I don't think someone who is grieving should be given permission to do whatever they want, but I think reasonable exceptions can be defined and made, even if they are very narrow.

The installation of more permanent memorials is a separate issue.

 

[TEO]

Litter removal by random hikers is I believe technically illegal although the fear of arrest has not kept me from picking up candy wrappers, etc.

Really? What makes you think this?

 

[Tom_Murphy]

I guess I would ignore them as long as they are in good shape but if their condition becomes disrespectful to the honoree they are probably best removed.

+ 1

Since the materials used were not intended to be permanent, I think they should be removed based on this criteria.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Really? What makes you think this?

I guess I'm a law breaker then!

At Balsam Lake, we have sort of a compromise to this situation. There are several memorials in the tower and cabin. Even inside the tower, a previous 'permanent' memorial (shellacked and mounted with bolts) deteriorated within 10 years, and had to be replaced.

Tim, if flags are trash, than so is your backpack. Anything that stays with the hiker for the duration of his/her stay at the summit is not trash, imo.

 

[kmac]

My 2 cents. If 500 hikers pass by the summit of Mt. Layfayette, on any given weekend, what would are summit look like. Leaving a flag with a paper memorial is considered litter, and should be removed.

 

[psmart]

LNT

(extra text needed to meet 10-character minimum, but I think 3 characters says it all)

 

[The Yankees Guy]

Once it is left I think it is up to the eyes beholding it as to whether or not it is trash. I found a bunch of "memorials" to the hard candy some thoughtful hiker was leaving on the Fishin' Jimmy Trail, I picked them up and brought them home because they didn't look like they were in the "right" spot (middle of trail, every 100 yards for a mile). That was just a shot at humor. I was just up on Flume and Liberty and saw two of the soldier memorials. Even snapped some pics of 'em. I let them be, gave a tearful salute, and headed on. I think if they had been there longer and were looking bad I may have taken them down, but in honor, not in disgust. This is a sticky one to say the least. NH law dictates that if u find anything of value that is not yours one must turn it in to the local/state police, and the flags left that the soldiers died for must be considered of great value. So if u bring 'em down, bring 'em in.

 

[bandana4me]

I am all for temporary memorials anywhere in the world, as long as they do not upset any vegetation (nails or staples in trees etc..). The memorials should be placed carefully and with great thought into what they are trying to accomplish. When the memorial is in place, take time to mourn, grieve or celebrate the persons life, take plenty of pictures then most importantly.........pick up the memorial and remove it from the spot so as not to make their memory of someone look like trash to others. I believe this is called having respect for the enviorment and the general population. Then you can have the picture framed and you can gaze upon and reflect anytime you want and the memorial will never fade away or be lost.

 

[sierra]

I think anything left as a memorial needs to be out of sight, nobody knows the person your memorializing, so why would they want to see it? The mountains tend to invoke inspiration and I get that, I had a friend who buried some ashes on Madison, but they where off the summit and deep, know body else would ever see them, that is ok to me. Imagine if this became a trend, personally I would find multiple memorials on one summit depressing as hell.

 

[RoySwkr]

If you call it a geocache you can leave memorials in the WMNF except above treeline and Wilderness areas, you can even post a memorial message online for free

 

[IQuest]

I saw this on Tecumseh Sunday. I took a pic and let it be. But, once it gives way to the elements or the mission is complete (I believe it said Tecumseh was #41) then they should be removed. My first thought when I saw it was that it was another lost article of wet clothing that I would have to carry out.

 

[Andrew]

If a U.S. flag begins to deteriorate, it should be removed and brought to an American Legion for proper disposal as it is considered disrespectful to display in such condition.

That would lead to the question as to whether it should be left out overnight without being illuminated.

We faced this issue after 911 on Monadnock when flags were being affixed in any manner of ways to natural features, including nailing through flags to trees which we found inappropriate. Generally we left them for one day to honor the passion behind the act, and then removed them. I know this addresses only one aspect.

 

[sierra]

If a U.S. flag begins to deteriorate, it should be removed and brought to an American Legion for proper disposal as it is considered disrespectful to display in such condition.

That would lead to the question as to whether it should be left out overnight without being illuminated.

We faced this issue after 911 on Monadnock when flags were being affixed in any manner of ways to natural features, including nailing through flags to trees which we found inappropriate. Generally we left them for one day to honor the passion behind the act, and then removed them. I know this addresses only one aspect.

In addition to illumination, I believe that a flag must be taken down in bad weather as well, although not 100% sure.