White Mountain National Forest Open as of Tuesday 8/30/2011

[MichaelJ]

Good news: Haystack Road and Gale River Road are not on that list. Imagine if those brand-new bridges had washed out?

Bad news: Zealand Road, Wild River Road (and the campground & suspension bridge), Jefferson Notch Road, Sawyer River Road, sections of Tripoli Road, and I believe I posted elsewhere about this - no access to Dolly Copp or Barnes Field from Rte 16.

Anyone know what the Sawyer River Road branches and spurs are?

 

[MichaelJ]

White Mountain National Forest Recommends Waiting a Few Days to Recreate on the Forest

The White Mountain National Forest has been responding to reports and assessing damage across the Forest. Our focus is on safety and moving to recovery to get the Forest fully open as safely and quickly as we can: however this may take time. Currently, we have assessed about 40 percent of major roads and developed sites across the Forest. There is still a lot of ground to cover and many unknowns, especially backcountry conditions. Therefore even though an area or trail may be open, caution and good judgment should be exercised. Visitors are strongly encouraged to wait a few more days before coming to recreate.

While the Forest will be open on Tuesday, August 29, certain areas, roads, sites, or trails will remain closed due to hazardous conditions, high water, wash outs, unsafe bridges or other impediments. Heed signing and check the website for updates. A list of areas and sites that are closed will be available in the morning.

Visitors who choose to recreate in the next few days should expect to encounter hazardous conditions. Heavy rains have swollen rivers and streams. Some trails may be impassable due to high water. Never enter high water areas or approach fast moving water. Keep your distance. Turn back if necessary.

Extremely high winds from the recent weather event has created blow down around the Forest. Trees, limbs and debris may block trails, impact campgrounds, and make roads impassable. Be aware that you may have to turn around. High winds may have also created hazards such as leaning trees or weak limbs that may come crashing down in the aftermath. Be aware of potential hazards in the area and above you.

Many roads have been damaged by the storm and remain impassable or dangerous. Washouts, compromised bridges, soft shoulders, blockage due to blow down, are but a few of the hazards to be expected. Heed road closures. Do not go around gates or road barricades. The State of NH has a list of road closures across the state, including state roads that access the Forest: http://www.nh.gov/readynh/index.htm.

The Forest will continue assessing damage. Please report any storm damage you encounter – whether on a road, trail, recreation site or campground to the White Mountain National Forest at (603) 536-6100. We will continue to keep our website updated with latest current conditions as they become available: www.fs.fed.us/r9/white.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

It's interesting to note the differences in the governmental responses in NH vs. NY. Perhaps it's just a long-held biasis on my part, but the NYSDEC takes it's usual draconian, authoritarian approach to the storm damage. And while the WMNF is under Federal jurisdiction, they are still influenced by local attitudes, and NH - better than NY - understands the economic impact which hikers and other recreatators (is that a word?) have on the state's economy.

Having said that - I think the notice which MichaelJ quotes takes a very reasonable approach in cautioning the public to "be careful out there".

 

[una_dogger]

It's interesting to note the differences in the governmental responses in NH vs. NY. Perhaps it's just a long-held biasis on my part, but the NYSDEC takes it's usual draconian, authoritarian approach to the storm damage. And while the WMNF is under Federal jurisdiction, they are still influenced by local attitudes, and NH - better than NY - understands the economic impact which hikers and other recreatators (is that a word?) have on the state's economy.

Having said that - I think the notice which MichaelJ quotes takes a very reasonable approach in cautioning the public to "be careful out there".

Just a thought on this, smaller, less accessible trail heads in the Catskills and Adirondacks may play a part in the decision making?

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Just a thought on this, smaller, less accessible trail heads in the Catskills and Adirondacks may play a part in the decision making?

I think it's related, but perhaps not in the way you intended.

I think the reason there are fewer, less accessible trailheads in NY than say, NH, VT or ME, is again a reflection of how "valuable" the hiking and outdoor recreation is to the economy of each state. If an economic impact statement was prepared on how "we" impact the local economy in NYS, then I think you'd find more trailheads, and they'd be maintained in winter, like NH. In my experience, NH understands this better than any other state in the Northeast (am not familiar with trailheads in Quebec so don't want to extend this generalization beyond the US border). In part, this may be because they really have to scramble for revenues, having no broad-based tax revenues to depend on.

Anyway [/thread hijack off].

 

[DougPaul]

White Mountain National Forest Recommends Waiting a Few Days to Recreate on the Forest

The White Mountain National Forest has been responding to reports and assessing damage across the Forest. <snip>

Might I suggest that people post references when quoting official announcements (or anyone else's pages in general)?

Doug

 

[MichaelJ]

PDF's load external to the browser and lose link information, which is why that was just a copy and paste from:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/news/2011/newsrel_20110829_WMNF_visit_delay.pdf

 

[Mike P.]

I think it's related, but perhaps not in the way you intended.

I think the reason there are fewer, less accessible trailheads in NY than say, NH, VT or ME, is again a reflection of how "valuable" the hiking and outdoor recreation is to the economy of each state. If an economic impact statement was prepared on how "we" impact the local economy in NYS, then I think you'd find more trailheads, and they'd be maintained in winter, like NH. In my experience, NH understands this better than any other state in the Northeast (am not familiar with trailheads in Quebec so don't want to extend this generalization beyond the US border). In part, this may be because they really have to scramble for revenues, having no broad-based tax revenues to depend on.

Anyway [/thread hijack off].

Maybe the overall size of the area too. ADK Park is about the size of VT & the Catskills are a pretty decent size too. Few NH roads (maybe Jefferson Notch although it's dirt) make me think of the road into The Garden, both suffered similar fates. It will be interesting to read trail reports for the next few weeks to hear how many blowdowns & erosion took place. No mention yet in NH of new slides while several new ones in ADK.

 

[RoySwkr]

Any of you anti-science and anti-gummint types interested in helping clean water bars and repairing trails this fall?

Of course, I always do and there'll be more need this year although mostly I'll do blowdowns

Anyone know what the Sawyer River Road branches and spurs are?

Too bad they don't use their own official numbers in their announcements, I suspect they are the gated logging roads starting near the upper end

 

[RoySwkr]

When was the last time this (forest closure) happened? anyone know?
[from http://vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41701 ]

I can't recall any "preventive closures" of the sort issued before the storm, it was good not to have people trapped up roads or trails blocked by trees or floods but in the past the FS was more inclined to let people look after themselves.

After the ice storm a few years back, people were warned not to go in the woods because of the danger of falling ice, but it wasn't mandatory and I don't remember any reports of injuries. There was talk of trails being closed for years but they were restored quickly with a lot of unofficial help by volunteers. After the 1980? ice storm, more trails than usual were closed for logging due to cleanup activity.

In days of yore governors would often "close the woods" at times of high fire danger since it was understood that people could not get by without smoking and building lunch and warming fires. (Advice of that era said to smoke only at rest stops so you could see where the ash went.) Much of the WMNF was closed after the 1938 hurricane, although often the trails were opened and off-trail users (hunters were probably the primary bushwhackers) were the most affected. The peak number of fire towers in NH was around 1940 with towers such as Carr Mtn built to watch particular hazard areas and removed when the hazard dissipated.

I think the wind damage from Irene was far less than in 1938 and the tourist industry is a much bigger factor now. It shouldn't take long for the FS to inspect all roads open to driving and remove fallen trees since only rarely would wires be involved. Cones could be placed at minor washouts and the roads reopened. It might take years to repair those damaged severely like Sawyer River Rd and Gale River Rd in the past, or maybe the disaster declaration would cut the red tape. Campgrounds and picnic areas might remain closed awhile if damage is severe. As for trails, we don't need bridges anyway, right?

 

[Forester Jake]

Pemi

My wife & I are headed into the Pemi tomorrow to the Osseo Trail (our adopted trail) up the east side of Mt Flume to check out storm damages and try to take care of any eroison or windfalls. We'll try to post a report tomorrow night. Hopefully damages aren't too bad- over here in Vermont our storm damages are crazy! What a storm!!

 

[TDawg]

My wife & I are headed into the Pemi tomorrow to the Osseo Trail (our adopted trail) up the east side of Mt Flume to check out storm damages...

Is the Lincoln Woods lot accessible tomorrow? According to this list which is supposedly updated today at 2pm, it isn't. (By car anyways, maybe you can hoof it?) Kanc closed Loon Mtn to Bear Notch Rd.

Do you know something I don't?

Edit: Appears Lincoln Woods is not on the list of closures. Disregard...

 

[Mike P.]

An Excerpt from a friend who's been in the area, post Irene: (Written for me because he knows I have not been on the East Side trail)

The East Side Trail out of Lincoln Woods that leads to one of the
few and free to use USFS campgrounds is washed out. It is an old
logging road that was in very good shape and could be driven on up to
the campground. I went up there today and the road is washed out in
many spots. One place in particular the rains washed away a 15'
diameter culvert and dug the road out about 50 feet wide and 15' deep.
The culvert got pushed down stream. There is no way they will repair
that this year. Because there is a pit toilet up there that needs to
be pumped periodically they will probably close the campground

 

[bobandgeri]

Mike - How did your friend get to the trail? Did he hike or bike to Lincoln Woods, or drive. Latest road closures still say the Kanc is closed from Loon to Bear Notch road.

 

[una_dogger]

Maybe the overall size of the area too. ADK Park is about the size of VT & the Catskills are a pretty decent size too. Few NH roads (maybe Jefferson Notch although it's dirt) make me think of the road into The Garden, both suffered similar fates. It will be interesting to read trail reports for the next few weeks to hear how many blowdowns & erosion took place. No mention yet in NH of new slides while several new ones in ADK.

National Forest Status and FS presence in the Whites (along with associated infrastructure) must play a large role in available resources to abate storm damage?

 

[MichaelJ]

The AMC now has status of the trails that lead to the huts:
http://www.outdoors.org/recreation/tripplanner/go/

Note that their comments about 302 and the Highland Center are vague. They mean 302 westbound, not 302 from the west.

Of particular interest is this Zealand reference:
North of Zealand bridge-200ft of water, 2 feet deep.

 

[freighttrain48]

The AMC now has status of the trails that lead to the huts:
http://www.outdoors.org/recreation/tripplanner/go/

Note that their comments about 302 and the Highland Center are vague. They mean 302 westbound, not 302 from the west.

Of particular interest is this Zealand reference:
North of Zealand bridge-200ft of water, 2 feet deep.

Hope this is addressed ASAP need to pick up Zealand to finish the 48 ... Real glad I picked up Jefferson and carrigain last week before Irene

 

[MichaelJ]

Hope this is addressed ASAP need to pick up Zealand to finish the 48 ... Real glad I picked up Jefferson and carrigain last week before Irene

You can always go over A-Z from the Highland Center.

 

[freighttrain48]

You can always go over A-Z from the Highland Center.

True thanks for showing they silver lining on an otherwise grey cloud

 

[bobandgeri]

You can always go over A-Z from the Highland Center.

Or Hale via the Fire Wardens trail, then down Lend-a-Hand to the Twinway and out over the Twins back to your car! It is actually a very nice hike!