Winter Pemi Loop

[Neil]

I don't hike very often in the White Mountains but after reading some of the great threads I thought I'd try my hand at a winter Pemi loop.

I have a question or two.

Is a winter Pemi Loop considered to be an agressive hike by the fish and game people? I would not want to run into trouble, need to be rescued and then be handed a huge bill.

Also, my winter pack normally weighs no more than 11 pounds, I know I take chances and all that but I hate carrying a heavy pack. Is there any problem with that vis-a-vis the f&g?

My idea was to do the loop clockwise and solo, starting at dawn and finishing within 16 hours. Does that seem reasonable? Also, how many peaks does the loop traverse?

Are snowshoes a necessity? In the Dacks we have that pesky 8 inch law.

Thanks in advance.

 

[nartreb]

It's not terribly clear how the state authorities decide whether to send a bill. Your best bet is probably calling NH F&G and asking, but keep in mind the answer you get, if you get one, is not likely to be binding on them.

As for your other questions, it's a 31.5-mile hike with over 9,000 feet of gain and a couple of above-treeline segments of about two miles each. 2mph average in winter over that course is agressive by anybody's standards (unless you go by the nickname "Farmer").

May I suggest you familiarize yourself with the terrain and the bailout options? I'm kind of familiar with a Pemi Loop FAQ you might find helpful.

PS Snowshoes aren't required, but a very good idea on some of the less-frequently-traveled trails. The ground down low is actually just about bare right now, but that will probably change today.

 

[HAMTERO]

Don't forget your whistle. Where do you keep it?

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

I Also, how many peaks does the loop traverse? Are snowshoes a necessity?

If this post is not a joke, I highly recommend bringing a map and compass. The map will indicate the number of peaks, and much, much more. I am not trying to be condescending with this reply, but I did encounter a solo hiker on the Northern Presi's last week without a map or compass who had no idea where he was or where he was going.

 

[audrey]

Neil, the only thing you really need to bring is your flute. We'll hear it and rush in to rescue you.

 

[dr_wu002]

Neil, the only thing you really need to bring is your flute. We'll hear it and rush in to rescue you.

A few beers would really go a long way as well.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Snowflea]

Wellll... I got into trouble here once when I said "most fit hikers could complete the Pemi Loop," so I won't say anything, 'cept it HAS been done in winter by a girl...

 

[Craig]

Don't forget to tag Owls Head. Most folks forsake this peak and it only takes a little more effort to ensure a your rightful place in the Winter Pemi Loop completers list.

IMO, the easiest way to tag OH is to whack down off Lafayette and then whack back up to Garfield.

You may have a good weather/conditions window this weekend.

Good luck, look forward to the TR.

 

[FARMER]

i think an 11 pound pack would be a bit overkill. some condensed milk a couple of fig newtons and a sturdy pair of Adidas Romas is all you need. To go clockwise anyway. counter clockwise will require a hat and gloves as well.

Hope this post was helpful.

 

[leaf]

Wellll... I got into trouble here once when I said "most fit hikers could complete the Pemi Loop," so I won't say anything, 'cept it HAS been done in winter by a girl...

and in summer one and half times by a girl.

 

[mirabela]

Neil --

I'm going to buck the trend here and treat your inquiry like it's a serious one, since I think it is.

I can't speak for what F&G will fine for, so I'll skip all those questions. You already know the best bet is to not need rescuing.

As for snowshoes, though -- there is no reg like in the ADK's, and barebooting / microspiking seems to be pretty much the norm in the Whites on packed out trails. Having said that, I'd bring shoes on the Pemi loop for two reasons. First, there are a couple legs of that trip that don't see a great deal of winter traffic. The stretch from Bond to South Twin, and the bit from Garfield to treeline on Lafayette could be drifted in deep. Secondly, there are three substantial segments of this trip on very exposed alpine ridges, and if you need to bail into the woods you're just hosed without flotation.

Good luck. It's a magnificent hike.

 

[DougPaul]

Neil,

You might want to consider counter-clockwise--the escape routes on the west side (second half) are much better.

Doug

 

[Neil]

Neil,

You might want to consider counter-clockwise--the escape routes on the west side (second half) are much better.

Doug

Makes sense but I like the idea of the long downhill walk at the end if I go CW.

I always carry a map and compass and will have all the trail junctions figured out and printed on a piece of plasticized paper.

Farmer, I dislike fig newtons but if that's what you ate when you did it I sure ain't gonna argue with that kind of success.

2.5 winter Pemi loops by 2 different girls huh? That's 1.25 each.

This behemoth of a hike is 50 kilometers long, right? Nearly 3000 meters of elly gain and loss? Now I'm thinking 14-15 hours (not 16) if conditions are easy. No sense hurrying on a trip like this, right Farmer? Going to take many gigabytes worth of pictures.

 

[FARMER]

I'd say 15 hours is a very doable time. snowshoes for sure and keep an eye on those franconia ridge trail condiitions to decide whether to bring crampons or not. I would suggest counter clockwise to avoid the mind numbing 5 mile sidewalk back to lincoln woods. Plus when you get to Bondcliff you'll have 1/3 of the mileage under your belt and all the fun stuff in front of you.

bummer you don't like fig newtons they are a great source of high fructose corn syrup.

 

[DougPaul]

Makes sense but I like the idea of the long downhill walk at the end if I go CW.

The 5 miles between Bondcliff trail and the trailhead are an old logging railbed with a rather gentle grade--it will feel more like walking on the level. A number of people complain about it on the way out but are sufficiently focused on the big hike that they don't seem to be bothered on the way in. Makes a nice easy XC ski route, particularly before the bridge (beyond the trail junction) was removed. The grade is so gentle that you hardly notice it, even when skiing. (In summer, you get to step on/over the occasional railroad tie.)

Haven't walked it myself in many years, but I have skied it multiple times.

Doug

 

[Tim Seaver]

Is a winter Pemi Loop considered to be an agressive hike by the fish and game people? I would not want to run into trouble, need to be rescued and then be handed a huge bill.

F&G has been regularly including the "Aggressive Itinerary" BS in their media blurbs as a way of covering their behind in case they want to bill. IMO, It really depends on how much cash on hand is in the F&G piggy bank, and how much it costs to retrieve you. Beyond that, most of the "reasoning" behind the decision to bill is window dressing.

Hope you get a chance to do the loop!

 

[skiguy]

i think an 11 pound pack would be a bit overkill.

Agreed....but what you could do to make it more challenging is leave your pack at each col then go back and get it then summit again and be sure to leave the pack at the next col then summit again and be sure....well you get the idea.

 

[Neil]

Hope you get a chance to do the loop!

I have a rather small window. March 19. (The day after my quadruple by-pass surgery.)

 

[dr_wu002]

I have a rather small window. March 19. (The day after my quadruple by-pass surgery.)

I planned to do a Pemi Loop that day and was considering inviting you to come along but not when you've had that type of surgery the day before! That's a very serious medical procedure and you should talk to your doctor to see if it's safe to do hike of that magnitude. I don't think it's a good idea. You'll probably still be in the hospital hooked up to a machine...

Agreed....but what you could do to make it more challenging is leave your pack at each col then go back and get it then summit again and be sure to leave the pack at the next col then summit again and be sure....well you get the idea.

That would mean doing the hike twice. The guy is having major heart surgery the day before -- doubtful this is an option...

-Dr. Wu

 

[Gillian]

I planned to do a Pemi Loop that day and was considering inviting you to come along but not when you've had that type of surgery the day before! That's a very serious medical procedure and you should talk to your doctor to see if it's safe to do hike of that magnitude. I don't think it's a good idea. You'll probably still be in the hospital hooked up to a machine...

That would mean doing the hike twice. The guy is having major heart surgery the day before -- doubtful this is an option...

-Dr. Wu

Very sound advice from the good doctor....however, if you do decide to go for it, the day after surgery, I suggest clockwise - that's how we did it a few Novembers ago...the sunrise was gorgeous on Franconia Ridge.