Woman shot while mountain biking

[sierra]

Well, for the better part of a century, contributing $0 toward S&R, trail maintenance, etc. of which many of the costs were alleviated by hunting and fishing, I'd say is a start.

First off, I don't use SAR services. Second, the AMC's trail work is covered by the fee's they charge. The Forest Service trail work is covered by my taxes. Over 30% of what I make goes to the government and the Forest is owned and run by a government agency. So don't think I will feel one bit of guilt for being able to hike there.

 

[dug]

First off, I don't use SAR services. Second, the AMC's trail work is covered by the fee's they charge. The Forest Service trail work is covered by my taxes. Over 30% of what I make goes to the government and the Forest is owned and run by a government agency. So don't think I will feel one bit of guilt for being able to hike there.

Not saying anyone should feel guilt, but for what hikers put into the mountains vs. what is taken, in relationship to hunters, pales. And, no, I've never hunted.

Not using SAR services doesn't mean it's not a service provided to hikers, and up until recently not paid for. If one doesn't belong to the AMC, no fees are collected for that hiker. Forest Service is covered by taxes, but that's the same for everyone who uses the Forest, so that's a wash.

 

[TJsName]

There are a lot of complex statements being bandied about here with regards to resource usage and funding. It's not as though the 1400+ miles of trail in the AMC White Mountain Guide were all built and are maintained with public funds (or by the AMC). The network is the results of public and private work to acquire land and to build and maintain the trails. And while hunters and fisherpeople do pay fees for licenses to help fund the NHF&G, they incur costs too - such as employing people to work at weigh stations and fisheries - with over 100 employees listed in the directory.

I'd be curious to see a comparative analysis of revenue to cost for F&G vs the FS when it comes to end users. I'd also be interested to see how volunteerism (and near-volunteerism) helps defray costs for each department. I would guess that hikers contribute a lot more free time, but I'm not sure how else F&G uses volunteer resources, aside from volunteer S&R of course. It's a complex issue that really requires some actual data to come to reasonable conclusions.

 

[sierra]

Not saying anyone should feel guilt, but for what hikers put into the mountains vs. what is taken, in relationship to hunters, pales. And, no, I've never hunted.

Not using SAR services doesn't mean it's not a service provided to hikers, and up until recently not paid for. If one doesn't belong to the AMC, no fees are collected for that hiker. Forest Service is covered by taxes, but that's the same for everyone who uses the Forest, so that's a wash.

This topic comes up every now and then and it tends to see contentious opinions. Hunter's pay to hunt via a license, but they get a return in whatever game they may take. I think a 150 lb deer is a good return on a license fee and yes, I know not all are successful. I put a lot of money into the North Country economy, so my impact is a positive one. As far as SAR goes, I've always thought there should be a better way to fund that, I cant believe it's still an issue to be honest. In regards to funding SAR missions. I've always advocated charging those who use the service. It's fair and it's appropriate. If I have spent the time and money to go out there and do it right, I see zero reason to help pay for those that don't. Even those who just have an accident, they should pay for what service they get. No different then riding in an ambulance. I've also given thought to a percentage of the parking fee's going into the SAR fund. There you would have a direct user contributing. If people are against hunter's and fisherman paying for search and rescue, they should contact their representatives and try to change it.

 

[TJsName]

This topic comes up every now and then and it tends to see contentious opinions. Hunter's pay to hunt via a license, but they get a return in whatever game they may take. I think a 150 lb deer is a good return on a license fee and yes, I know not all are successful. I put a lot of money into the North Country economy, so my impact is a positive one. As far as SAR goes, I've always thought there should be a better way to fund that, I cant believe it's still an issue to be honest. In regards to funding SAR missions. I've always advocated charging those who use the service. It's fair and it's appropriate. If I have spent the time and money to go out there and do it right, I see zero reason to help pay for those that don't. Even those who just have an accident, they should pay for what service they get. No different then riding in an ambulance. I've also given thought to a percentage of the parking fee's going into the SAR fund. There you would have a direct user contributing. If people are against hunter's and fisherman paying for search and rescue, they should contact their representatives and try to change it.

Does pay-for-service include police and fire? Why not privatize all public services? It'll be like signing up for health insurance. You want the gold package?

As for licenses, I am curious how much licenses fund, vs act as a means to regulate and monitor hunting. If it was purely financial I'd be fine if the funds came out of the general fund to reduce inefficiency. I suspect there is an important data component though.

 

[sierra]

Does pay-for-service include police and fire? Why not privatize all public services? It'll be like signing up for health insurance. You want the gold package?

As for licenses, I am curious how much licenses fund, vs act as a means to regulate and monitor hunting. If it was purely financial I'd be fine if the funds came out of the general fund to reduce inefficiency. I suspect there is an important data component though.

Police and Fire are paid for via your taxes. true story. When I lived in CO there was a small town that had a financial problem. The Fire dept. sent out a notice saying you had to pay a fee to be on "their list" to receive services. One day a fire call came out and arriving at the house realized, the home owner had not paid the fee. They let his house burn, even with him shouting, I'll pay !!!!

 

[TJsName]

Police and Fire are paid for via your taxes. true story. When I lived in CO there was a small town that had a financial problem. The Fire dept. sent out a notice saying you had to pay a fee to be on "their list" to receive services. One day a fire call came out and arriving at the house realized, the home owner had not paid the fee. They let his house burn, even with him shouting, I'll pay !!!!

I feel like we're on the same page so long as we both agreed that anecdote is a bad situation.

 

[NHClimber]

What privileges do hikers have? Besides, on most of the 4k's, you will never see a hunter. I always find it fascinating when hikers try to bring up restrictions on themselves. I've heard mention of quota's, limiting car's in parking area's. The whole idea behind going to the mountains is to get away from restrictions, imo. I'm not skipping a month, so someone can have the woods alone to hunt.

Continued population growth will eventually require limits on your ability to hike wherever and whenever you want. Just like other outdoor activities, hiking has a big impact. The day is coming where hiking will be limited on public lands. It already is in some places (eg, BSP).

 

[sierra]

Continued population growth will eventually require limits on your ability to hike wherever and whenever you want. Just like other outdoor activities, hiking has a big impact. The day is coming where hiking will be limited on public lands. It already is in some places (eg, BSP).

Baxter is not exactly the same model as the Whites. It's a private park donated and under the condition that it be run as Baxter stated.

 

[iAmKrzys]

Police and Fire are paid for via your taxes. true story. When I lived in CO there was a small town that had a financial problem. The Fire dept. sent out a notice saying you had to pay a fee to be on "their list" to receive services. One day a fire call came out and arriving at the house realized, the home owner had not paid the fee. They let his house burn, even with him shouting, I'll pay !!!!

I hope they made sure that there was no one left inside that burning house!

I think there is a certain qualitative difference between Police or Fire Department services and SAR. In case of former arguably almost all local residents might benefit from these services at some point in their lives, so the case for funding them through taxes is stronger. When it comes to SAR, it primarily serves a smaller population in the course of their elective activities. Hence it seems fair to me if funding of SAR were more targeted. Using some portion of parking fees certainly could be a way of at least partially addressing the problem.

 

[Stan]

There is some hunting allowed within Baxter Park, mainly in the southern section where day use might be common during hunting season. Many maps delineate this area and I would presume that the sign on the tote road directing that weapons be stored marks the east-west line of the northern limit of this hunting area.

 

[NHClimber]

Baxter is not exactly the same model as the Whites. It's a private park donated and under the condition that it be run as Baxter stated.

True of course. But not relevant. Continued population growth will require limiting access to public lands at some point. Perhaps not in our lifetime, but the earth's land masses are not expanding and, if anything, are shrinking with climate change.

 

[Raven]

True of course. But not relevant. Continued population growth will require limiting access to public lands at some point. Perhaps not in our lifetime, but the earth's land masses are not expanding and, if anything, are shrinking with climate change.

Assuming population will continue to grow may be safe for a time but how long? Population will continue to grow until it doesn't. Natural limits based on carrying capacity of the planet exist for all species. Humans have surpassed theirs. It's why we are looking to colonize Mars and the moon. Get your ticket. When it is coming and what major environmental factor will limit that growth is the mystery.

 

[skiguy]

Assuming population will continue to grow may be safe for a time but how long? Population will continue to grow until it doesn't. Natural limits based on carrying capacity of the planet exist for all species. Humans have surpassed theirs. It's why we are looking to colonize Mars and the moon. Get your ticket. When it is coming and what major environmental factor will limit that growth is the mystery.

Mars International Sand Dune Park. Are they giving a Senior discount yet or do I have to pay full price for a life time pass?