Would it happen in NH? S&R tells someone to hunker down for the night

[peakbagger]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lost-hiker-asked-help-colorado-162400870.html

My guess in NH that someone from F&G, or a volunteer rescue group or AMC would like up location of the lost hiker? I think it comes down to media optics, I could see the headline "NH F&G abandons lost terrified hiker for hours in the dark". In theory all hikers are supposed to have extra gear to survive colder temps if they need to hunker down but expect many do not.

 

[egilbe]

Being scared does not equal being in danger. Of course, in the White mountains, it could.

Occasionally, someone doesn't pay attention to the tide schedule in Bar Harbor and walks out to Bar island and becomes stranded when the tide inevitabley rolls back in, covering the bar. Tourists have called 911 to be "rescued". They've been told the tide schedule and to wait a few hours. They can ususally survive a few hours on their own.

 

[Grey J]

I saw this and almost posted it but peakbagger beat me to it. It made perfect sense to me, and I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see more of this in the future. Discomfort is not equivalent to danger, and I don't believe there is an inherent "right to be rescued" other than a moral imperative we may share to help another person. I love the Bar Harbor example. Just wait a few hours and you'll be fine.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Maybe if this happened more often and was publicized, at least a few people would take note and be more prepared, or at least realize that help may not come instantly.

Somewhat related, during hurricane Ian, 911 stopped responding to calls, because it was just not safe for the rescuers. There is a similar moral to the story: Don't put yourself in harm's way and expect someone else to coming running to save you.

 

[OldEric]

I saw this and almost posted it but peakbagger beat me to it. It made perfect sense to me, and I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see more of this in the future. Discomfort is not equivalent to danger, and I don't believe there is an inherent "right to be rescued" other than a moral imperative we may share to help another person. I love the Bar Harbor example. Just wait a few hours and you'll be fine.

The Bar Island one is even more interesting as there is the option to call a private boat captain for the 5 minute ride back. The number and price is posted on the Island end of the Bar. I have waded back knee deep a few times. oops...

 

[sierra]

I think it's a practice that should be applied in NH for sure. Will it ever? I wouldn't bet 1 dollar that it will. NH has a practice of coddling distressed hikers to know end. How many rescues have you read about where the "victims" walk out on their own power, accompanied by Fish and Game officers?

 

[peakbagger]

I think the NH concept is its easier to send someone up for walk out then have to carry them out later. When I did my ankle in I probably sounded rational but I definitely was going into shock, there was no chance of me wandering off except for crawling but some one with hypothermia might sound rational initially and then go downhill quickly

 

[dug]

Probably need to separate injured vs. lost vs. tired vs. overdue. We've amassed a lot of instances where "hunker down" was, actually, the safest option (i.e. putting someone else in danger for something that, honestly, isn't life threatening). An injury, even something we deem minor could turn quite serious if there is secondary damage.

Of course, some will catch on and not say they are tired, etc.....just say "I'm injured and can't walk, I'm fading in and out....[I'm coming Elizabeth! I'm coming to join you honey!!]" and worry about it after rescuers get there.

 

[dug]

Right on queue

https://www.boston.com/news/local-n...arges-risky-hiker-rescues/?p1=hp_featurestack

 

[sierra]

I think the NH concept is its easier to send someone up for walk out then have to carry them out later. When I did my ankle in I probably sounded rational but I definitely was going into shock, there was no chance of me wandering off except for crawling but some one with hypothermia might sound rational initially and then go downhill quickly

Valid points for sure and in some cases, sending someone up to assess the situation is the right thing to do. But, I do think you can in some cases distinguish cases that do not require immediate response. If someone is on a trail and has no headlamps and its over 50 degrees, does that warrant SAR response? If it does, fine. send them a bill. I still find it hard to believe, everybody who gets SAR help, does not get a bill. Just get rid of the Hike Safe card and charge everybody who gets rescued.

 

[ChrisB]

Hey, how about a menu of rescue services based on a sliding monetary scale. Sort of "Curated Rescue."

1. Speak with a SAR triage coordinator -- Free

2. Self rescue following phone instructions provided by a real SAR staff member -- $500

3. Be personally guided out of the woods by two experienced SAR staff. (includes flashlight, snacks and drinks) -- $2,000

4. Deluxe package: Be carried out of the woods by 20 SAR staff. (includes #3 items, plus logo fleece hat and vest,
all-season gloves, rain poncho and a hearty hot meal. (tips and hospital transfers not included). -- $5,000

5. Ultimate package: Thrilling helicopter rescue and scenic flight to hospital of your choice. (includes items in #3 and #4 plus replica flight helmet and souvenir Blackhawk patch. -- $25,000

 

[dug]

Hey, how about a menu of rescue services based on a sliding monetary scale. Sort of "Curated Rescue."

1. Speak with a SAR triage coordinator -- Free

2. Self rescue following phone instructions provided by a real SAR staff member -- $500

3. Be personally guided out of the woods by two experienced SAR staff. (includes flashlight, snacks and drinks) -- $2,000

4. Deluxe package: Be carried out of the woods by 20 SAR staff. (includes #3 items, plus logo fleece hat and vest,
all-season gloves, rain poncho and a hearty hot meal. (tips and hospital transfers not included). -- $5,000

5. Ultimate package: Thrilling helicopter rescue and scenic flight to hospital of your choice. (includes items in #3 and #4 plus replica flight helmet and souvenir Blackhawk patch. -- $25,000

#4 should come with a bumper sticker and T-shirt "This body carried out by SAR on Mt. Washington"

 

[richard]

#5 is amusing until you easily and without prior warning might have a heart attack.

 

[dug]

Right on queue

https://www.boston.com/news/local-n...arges-risky-hiker-rescues/?p1=hp_featurestack

Interesting reading the comments this morning. Theme seems to be that "it's their job and what they signed up for". Might give a view into the thought process some have amassed, that coming to the mountains and their being a paid staff to cater and/or save you should you need it is a real thing.

 

[Grey J]

The "Comments" section is always interesting reading because of what it reveals about the human thought process. People who have no idea about a subject (like the volunteer nature of SAR) will often opine with not just definitive but sarcastic speech that is factually incorrect and then nasty on top. It's so ridiculous that it can make your head spin, but it's also fascinating in a way, that people can sound so certain and be so wrong. I have come around to Sierra's POV. Charge everybody who needs a rescue and then there are no grey areas. You know the deal before you go.

 

[sierra]

The "Comments" section is always interesting reading because of what it reveals about the human thought process. People who have no idea about a subject (like the volunteer nature of SAR) will often opine with not just definitive but sarcastic speech that is factually incorrect and then nasty on top. It's so ridiculous that it can make your head spin, but it's also fascinating in a way, that people can sound so certain and be so wrong. I have come around to Sierra's POV. Charge everybody who needs a rescue and then there are no grey areas. You know the deal before you go.

Here's my reasoning, not that most or any might find the logic in it. If you go to the ER and spend 6 hours or so there, you get a bill. Why is calling 911 in the backcountry any different? The Fish and Game has a limited budget as a state organization, SAR cost are payed for by hunters and fisherman. Why are they paying for a hiker to get carried off mountain, who has put zero money into the dept.? Accountability, if you require help, you should be not only grateful, but financially responsible. People make it out to be some humanitarian endeavor offered by SAR, yes they are volunteers, but the officers that join them and coordinate the rescues are not, nor are the Helicopter personal or the National Guard if called out. Learn your craft, do your homework and if you get in trouble, don't reach for your phone first. Sit down and take stock of your situation, figure out how to get yourself out. You chose to take part in an adventure, don't be a tourist in 30 seconds after you get in a bit of trouble.

 

[TEO]

I'll point out that, at least where I have lived, when you call 911 and they send the police, fire department, and/or ambulance, you don't get a bill. Additionally, you're looking to what is widely viewed as a screwed-up healthcare system as a model of funding SARs? Gee! Let's make hiking even more elitist.

Solution A: We all know that social media is driving force behind the influx of yahoos on the trail. It's high-time that there be a nation-wide SAR tax on social media posts about the outdoors. You want to post a selfie from the summit of Owls Head? [Ding!] A 50¢ tax is charged to your perferred form of payment and directed to a nation-wide SAR fund. Charge on a per-photo basis, the secondary benefit of which is that it would cut down on the 65+photo posts for a hike up Welch-Dickey.

Solution B: As previously proposed, regulate the number of hikers and additionally levy an annual fee—$49/year?—on all registered hikers.

Solution C: The good (?) people of New Hampshire recognize that tourism is a signficant driver of their economy, that one of the consequences of the boon of tourism is an increased number of SARs, therefore it will properly fund the Fish and Game department and other public institutions and infrastructure related to SARs from the general operating fund.

 

[skiguy]

I'll point out that, at least where I have lived, when you call 911 and they send the police, fire department, and/or ambulance, you don't get a bill. Additionally, you're looking to what is widely viewed as a screwed-up healthcare system as a model of funding SARs? Gee! Let's make hiking even more elitist.

Solution A: We all know that social media is driving force behind the influx of yahoos on the trail. It's high-time that there be a nation-wide SAR tax on social media posts about the outdoors. You want to post a selfie from the summit of Owls Head? [Ding!] A 50¢ tax is charged to your perferred form of payment and directed to a nation-wide SAR fund. Charge on a per-photo basis, the secondary benefit of which is that it would cut down on the 65+photo posts for a hike up Welch-Dickey.

Solution B: As previously proposed, regulate the number of hikers and additionally levy an annual fee—$49/year?—on all registered hikers.

Solution C: The good (?) people of New Hampshire recognize that tourism is a signficant driver of their economy, that one of the consequences of the boon of tourism is an increased number of SARs, therefore it will properly fund the Fish and Game department and other public institutions and infrastructure related to SARs from the general operating fund.

Not sure where you live but most people pay some sort of State Income Tax. Which in most States and or towns pays for infrastructure like ambulances. As far as charging for selfies that is just discrimination. As far as NH being a tourist state and the citizens of that state should just suck it up is like arguing a bucket with a hole in it will hold water. News flash. People from NH actually do leave their state and pay all the fees just like everyone else like parking, food, gas and lodging. It’s high time that people who visit NH to hike should pull on their big boy pants and accept the costs of their choices to go out and have fun.

 

[Mike P.]

I'll point out that, at least where I have lived, when you call 911 and they send the police, fire department, and/or ambulance, you don't get a bill. Additionally, you're looking to what is widely viewed as a screwed-up healthcare system as a model of funding SARs? Gee! Let's make hiking even more elitist.

Solution A: We all know that social media is driving force behind the influx of yahoos on the trail. It's high-time that there be a nation-wide SAR tax on social media posts about the outdoors. You want to post a selfie from the summit of Owls Head? [Ding!] A 50¢ tax is charged to your perferred form of payment and directed to a nation-wide SAR fund. Charge on a per-photo basis, the secondary benefit of which is that it would cut down on the 65+photo posts for a hike up Welch-Dickey.

Solution B: As previously proposed, regulate the number of hikers and additionally levy an annual fee—$49/year?—on all registered hikers.

Solution C: The good (?) people of New Hampshire recognize that tourism is a signficant driver of their economy, that one of the consequences of the boon of tourism is an increased number of SARs, therefore it will properly fund the Fish and Game department and other public institutions and infrastructure related to SARs from the general operating fund.

As neither a Social Media poster, except here and NETC and ADK High Peaks Forum, or a NH resident, A and C are appealing. For all these yahoo's posting everything they do to try and be Social Influencers, they should pay something for filling up all that bandwidth with the 65 W-D pictures.

 

[sierra]

I'll point out that, at least where I have lived, when you call 911 and they send the police, fire department, and/or ambulance, you don't get a bill. Additionally, you're looking to what is widely viewed as a screwed-up healthcare system as a model of funding SARs? Gee! Let's make hiking even more elitist.

Solution A: We all know that social media is driving force behind the influx of yahoos on the trail. It's high-time that there be a nation-wide SAR tax on social media posts about the outdoors. You want to post a selfie from the summit of Owls Head? [Ding!] A 50¢ tax is charged to your perferred form of payment and directed to a nation-wide SAR fund. Charge on a per-photo basis, the secondary benefit of which is that it would cut down on the 65+photo posts for a hike up Welch-Dickey.

Solution B: As previously proposed, regulate the number of hikers and additionally levy an annual fee—$49/year?—on all registered hikers.

Solution C: The good (?) people of New Hampshire recognize that tourism is a signficant driver of their economy, that one of the consequences of the boon of tourism is an increased number of SARs, therefore it will properly fund the Fish and Game department and other public institutions and infrastructure related to SARs from the general operating fund.

You don't get a bill from the hospital ER dept? I find that hard to believe. You want to limit hikers on the trail as a solution? You and I think nothing alike that is for sure. As far as being an elitist? yeah ok.