Wow, this a trip report for the books!

[B the Hiker]

I carry similar gear as you do. Heavy parka is my last line of defense. I do carry storm proof matches though. I've never carried a bag or a stove, I actually don't carry a pad either to be honest. [...] I've been hiking over 40 years, many years never missing a week and I'm still here, so my system is adequate.

I am afraid you are following a logical fallacy. Your "system" (or lack thereof) is completely inadequate; it's just you have never needed to use it. Your reasoning is like someone saying her vehicle does not need seatbelts because she has never been in an accident.

 

[egilbe]

Stove, air mattress, stove, fuel, pot, quilt on every Winter hike.

 

[Salty]

appears to know the area well as he describes it

I would respectfully disagree, Mike. Like sierra, I'm surprised at losing the Cog. Granted it could be buried, but I would imagine that area would be pretty wind-scoured. But I could be wrong there.

This was my "Huh????" moment:

"I figured if I angled down Burt Ravine to below treeline and headed into the woods to the right further down, I would be able to find my way towards the cog railway station. Not too far down, the ravine narrowed and got super-steep as the source of Clay Brook. The brook bed was a 45-degree chute of frozen snow with a light dusting."

You can see from the topo, Burt Ravine equals not fun, and steep as snot. Also means a whack for most of the way. He clearly went to the very bottom of the ravine (yoiks). My personal choice, barring a GPS, would have been stick to the ridge line, where it eventually intercepts the Jewell below treeline, and doesn't have nasty grades.

That being said, I've been there when it comes to not thinking all that clearly when things go awry. Something I hope I have learned from.

 

[Mike P.]

Gear is usually dependent on the trip. The last couple of years it's been too many CT day trips, with the occasional Pierce, Willard, Potash, Tecumseh or Kearsarge North or Indian Head or the Green Hills. so I'm not bringing the axe and a bivy on those trips. Yes, you could slip anywhere and out of those trips, the most dangerous spots are the water crossings on Tecumseh and Potash if they aren't solid and a couple of large rocks that pick up a lot of ice on Kearsarge North.

Other than the ravines and small stretches on exposed sections of trail, do you see anyone using an axe. As my hand s tend to get cold, I bring lots of extra gloves and if I have to pull out the expedition lobster claws or the neoprene face mask, I'm heading back. Since I usually am sweating within 200 yards of the car, if ice keeps forming around my eyes, it's time to turn around, I'll wear the goggles if frostbite an issue but not on "near" normal expected temps. (-40 wind chills or more for any duration are out, I'll poke my head out on Willard or similar hill)

 

[DayTrip]

I am afraid you are following a logical fallacy. Your "system" (or lack thereof) is completely inadequate; it's just you have never needed to use it. Your reasoning is like someone saying her vehicle does not need seatbelts because she has never been in an accident.

And what is "completely inadequate" exactly? My jacket and pants have as much or more grams of down than most 0 deg sleeping bags. But because it's not a sleeping bag it is inadequate? What type of bag exactly are you taking on a Winter day hike? I would be willing to bet my jacket/pants/bivy would be just as warm and toasty as your whatever you're bringing. And I can walk in mine if I want to. An advantage over your sleeping bag.

You seem to struggle with the notion that you're point of view is the only correct one, which it is not.

 

[B the Hiker]

If one takes a WFA course, one of the first things one does is put the patient on a pad.

If one carries a stove, one can melt water so as not be dehydrated.

A parka and pants are not alternatives to a sleeping bag. If they were, winter backpackers wouldn't carry sleeping bags, just down jackets and pants.

If you think that a person with a jacket and pants, no pad, no sleeping bag, and no stove will be "just as warm and toasty" as someone with them, we can respectfully disagree.

 

[maineguy]

He didn't have a pad.
He didn't have a sleeping bag.
He didn't have a bivy.
He didn't have a stove.

You know what else he didn't have? He didn't have to call for help.

Mental and physical toughness. Don't leave home without it.

 

[cragway]

You know what else he didn't have? He didn't have to call for help.

Mental and physical toughness. Don't leave home without it.

Right.......that,and maybe-e-e-e.......oh ..I don't know......the benign cooperative weather?...

This is the simple case of not cutting your losses and turning back ...bag the peak another day.....he was playing Russian roulette being above tree line with that clear window...upper Jewel
trail in fog is not a good place to be......I think he wasted valuable time down at the hut starting up towards Washington
then turning around and back towards Monroe and then the crossover?..back up....not sure about that choice.....I think he should've stayed with the cog and baby stepped his way down since the wind didn't seem to be an issue. ....But again what do they say?...."the mountain suffers most fools ....

 

[ChrisB]

Hey, who tries for Monroe, Washington and Jefferson solo as winter out-and-back? Crazy in the best condx!

 

[Mike P.]

Hey, who tries for Monroe, Washington and Jefferson solo as winter out-and-back? Crazy in the best condx!

He was making good time up to the hut, had it been clear he would have made it. Bob is in good aerobic shape.

No where does he mention seeing others and on NETC there were two Monroe trips that were attempts. (& I'm slightly puzzled how you get to LOTC and don't make the 3/10ths trip up Monroe unless the weather is so ugly getting to the hut was high risk. To be fair, one of the reports mentioned they had been up Monroe several times before) It's a bunch of time planned on a broad alpine area where good visibility over a 2-4 hours, depending again on fitness. The fact went back and forth on Monroe and ended up on wrond trails south of Washington showed he had very limited visibility for a fair amount of time.

As Day Trip and other's mentioned so close to the end of his solo winter list, a case of list fever had him looking to knock off the three peaks. I don't know when he had planned this trip, however, he probably should have done it in September or October also so he could make mental notes on how the C-Path wove around the Lakes, where it stayed west generally of the highest part of the ridgeline before reaching the cone. Lesson learned, hopefully (and by others reading so they don't have to learn it themselves)

 

[DayTrip]

If one takes a WFA course, one of the first things one does is put the patient on a pad.

If one carries a stove, one can melt water so as not be dehydrated.

A parka and pants are not alternatives to a sleeping bag. If they were, winter backpackers wouldn't carry sleeping bags, just down jackets and pants.

If you think that a person with a jacket and pants, no pad, no sleeping bag, and no stove will be "just as warm and toasty" as someone with them, we can respectfully disagree.

I understand the uses for all these items. My original point, if one was to stop and read it, was that I seriously doubt most people carry a sleeping bag and stove on a typical Winter day hike in NH, not whether or not that is a smart decision. I've never taken a WFA course but I'm pretty sure it isn't heavily geared towards day hikes in highly populated areas with established trail networks with easy road access to emergency services. It may incorporate strategies for more remote areas lacking these amenities.

In an emergency situation in Winter I'm saying there may be many factors that make using a stove or building a fire difficult or impossible, especially solo as the person in this incident was. In the conditions given in this report I seriously doubt that he'd be able to use a stove effectively. In addition to carrying a stove, you need to be carrying the proper stove and have the physical possibility of using it. If it just gets dark and I'm hopelessly lost sure sitting down and boiling water for a hot chocolate or water or whatever would be an obvious plus. If I'm lost on the side of Mt Jefferson in a 50mph wind with a dislocated shoulder I doubt the stove will be of help to me. So for me personally, I feel like the probability that I would need a stove and have the conditions to use it and be injury free enough to actually use it are low enough I choose to save the weight. I generally carry more water than most people, even in Winter, which further reinforces my choice on the stove.

And on the "jacket and pants" thing you keep filling in the blanks out of context from what I am saying. I have a down jacket and down pants intended for extreme weather (fill content, down, etc just like a sleeping bag with comparable temp rating) and combined with a pad and my Gore Tex bivy is EXTREMELY comfortable well below zero. I have actually tested it. I am not assuming it works. I'm not talking about a Patagonia Nano Puff jacket and fleece pants. I agree you need solid insulation. I do not agree that the only possible option has to be a sleeping bag. I would further suggest that given the size of most people's day packs the sleeping bag they bring, if any, has inferior insulating properties to my "jacket and pants". And again in the context of the post - a Winter solo day hike on an established trail network in a populated area - I am quite comfortable with my choices.

 

[DayTrip]

Hey, who tries for Monroe, Washington and Jefferson solo as winter out-and-back? Crazy in the best condx!

A lot of people nowadays. In the right conditions that really is not as bad as it sounds. And if the times this guy referenced in his report are legitimate, he was more than capable of doing this from a fitness point of view.

 

[DayTrip]

I'm not here to cast shade on this gent, but he hardly struck me as carrying the gear or making the decisions someone "experienced" would:

He didn't have a pad.
He didn't have a sleeping bag.
He didn't have a bivy.
He didn't have a stove.

Having recently hiked down Cog route myself for the first time, while steep in some sections, it is by far and away the quickest and easiest route off Mt. Washington, and there's a shelter on the way down if things got really bad. If one couldn't follow the tracks right next to it, I have no idea why anyone would believe the Jewell Trail would be anything but harder.

Reasonable people can disagree, but I think there is a strong argument to be made that this individual survived despite his actions, not because of them.

I know I'm giving you are a hard time on this but would you be willing to share the brand/make/model of these 4 items that you personally carry (pad/sleeping bag/bivy/stove) in a typical Winter day hike scenario? I think we can put you in the "ideally prepared" category so I'm curious to evaluate the weight and space requirements of your kit versus what a "typical" weekend warrior in the Franconia lot on a SAT might have.

I promise there will be no "Aha! My coat has 4.2 more grams of down than your sleeping bag" moments. I'm just curious on the comparison of ideal versus likely. You can message me if you'd prefer not to list for someone else's "aha" moment.

 

[CaptCaper]

I wonder if the poster of this report has a (real) hiking GPS. In very low visibility it could help him retrace his steps even if he did not have good trail maps on it.

Being a sea going guy since day 1 and navigating and finding wrecks was my passion what I've done for 22 yrs now is record the trip on my gps with a high track point drop during the summer months. Reload it for winter hikes incase of issues like above. Also I record the hike that winter day from the trailhead so if I wanted to head back it would be a very fresh recording. Oh and I carry 2 proven gpsr's with extra batteries.

On new hikes I've plotted a route (trail) with many wapoints loaded it to my gps's just in case I need a reference to stay within reason on a trail or ridgeline.

I save every one still and I've got all my tracks and the data within them of the 48 52 and many others since 1998. Many in dupilcate's etc.

And yes we (wife) carry many map's compasses as well.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Hey, who tries for Monroe, Washington and Jefferson solo as winter out-and-back? Crazy in the best condx!

Lots of people do it as a loop rather than an out-and-back (out-and-back to Jefferson.) I've done this solo twice (well, once with my dog.) I've done all the Presidential and Franconia peaks solo (or just me and my dog) in winter more than once. Wouldn't do it in questionable weather but during a forecasted high pressure period, not scary at all.

I actually considered that the post by Bob on New England Trail Conditions might be a troll, but he's posted lots of other trips, so maybe not.

Tim

 

[dug]

I've carried a 1/3 piece of a Ridgerest on me from Newfoundland to Alaska over the last 25 years. It goes with me on all day hikes, winter and summer; and also all backpacking trips (and, if it matters, around the yard to kneel on, clean the pool skimmer, painting trim, etc.). It's essentially a 2x2 square closed foam pad that can (and has) been stood or sat on for hours in all weather. It can wrap a leg w/ straps. It weighs just a few ounces, can fit inside a backpack (against my back) to ensure no stray pot handles stick me. On day hikes, I just strap it on the outside. I imagine it will go in my casket someday as well...

I also carry my stove always and have actually run into two situations where someone needed to be warmed up fast, and was glad to be able to have a tool to use to assist.

 

[DayTrip]

I also carry my stove always and have actually run into two situations where someone needed to be warmed up fast, and was glad to be able to have a tool to use to assist.

That's a valid point. I'm a solo hiker and my gear perspective is biased toward what I need but I might find myself in a scenario someday where I'm not the person having the emergency. I don't know that I'd ever be packing gear from the point of view of what other people might need (that could be a big list nowadays!) but that is a sensible observation.

 

[Mitts]

(I've tested in my yard as low as - 35 deg F for 30 minutes).

Is this -35 degrees for 30 minutes a joke?

You consistently post things on this board that are not aligned with backcountry best practices and back them up with contrived "theories" and "tests" that you have thought up or done that are not applicable to real world situations or other people. I'm not here to tell you what to on your hikes but your "advice" is going to get someone hurt someday.

 

[DayTrip]

Is this -35 degrees for 30 minutes a joke?

You consistently post things on this board that are not aligned with backcountry best practices and back them up with contrived "theories" and "tests" that you have thought up or done that are not applicable to real world situations or other people. I'm not here to tell you what to on your hikes but your "advice" is going to get someone hurt someday.

Uh no it is not. We had a wicked cold snap several years back so I dressed up in all the clothes I would normally Winter hike in, put my Gore Tex bivy on the ground, put my z-fold in it, crawled in and laid there for 30 minutes and I was fine. I'm sure after 10-12 hours in an actual overnight scenario I wouldn't be toasty warm but I'm extremely confident I would survive just fine. I have slept overnight in the same set up on my deck in far less severe conditions without issue. For the weather I typically would hike in (which would never be -35 deg F) my set up is more than adequate for the conditions. I don't recall labeling it as "advice" and I don't recall saying it is applicable to all other people. I said it is what "I do" and is not automatically wrong or completely inadequate just because it is not what Brian would do. You can believe whatever you want. Your opinion has no value to my thought process when I hike.

What exactly is "contrived" or "not real world scenarios" in all these posts you mention? Maybe you can message Brian and see if he has more specific things he disagrees with me on? Based on the odd timing of this post I suspect you just have an agenda to further here and not actual details you want to discuss but I'd be happy to clarify any of these wild and inconsistent "theories" I seem to be pedaling....

 

[skiguy]

Minus 35 in Woodstock Conn.? When was that?