How DEET works

Waumbek · Mar 17, 2008

If they ever outlaw this stuff in the U.S., I'll have to emigrate or spend all summer indoors. Guess I'd be emigrating.

bikehikeskifish · Mar 17, 2008

Maybe trans-fat will work as well as DEET. I hear there will be an over-supply of it in the Boston area in the next six months.

Tim

rocket21 · Mar 17, 2008

bikehikeskifish said:
I hear there will be an over-supply of it in the Boston area in the next six months.

No way...messing with Mike's Pastry's food is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

chipc · Mar 17, 2008

This is really cool - DEET doesn't repel insects it just prevents insects form smelling us. This knowledge should allow chemists to come up with new compounds that work as well as DEET but hopefully without side effects.

btw Tim - NYC and several other cities have been banning trans fats for a while. Restaurants have managed to cope and a number of national chains have already altered their recipes to use regular fat.

skiguy · Mar 18, 2008

chipc said:
This is really cool - DEET doesn't repel insects it just prevents insects form smelling us. This knowledge should allow chemists to come up with new compounds that work as well as DEET but hopefully without side effects.

It's already been done. The problem is that not only does this stuff repel bugs...it repels everything else living

http://www.woodsmansinternational.com/fly_&_squito_dope_2.htm

Mad Townie · Mar 19, 2008

skiguy said:
It's already been done. The problem is that not only does this stuff repel bugs...it repels everything else living

http://www.woodsmansinternational.com/fly_&_squito_dope_2.htm

As soon as you said "repels everything" I KNEW what you were talking about. Ah, the scents of my youth!

Kevin Rooney · Mar 19, 2008

bikehikeskifish said:
Maybe trans-fat will work as well as DEET. I hear there will be an over-supply of it in the Boston area in the next six months.

Tim

Would that be DEET, trans-fat or Bostonians?

DougPaul · Mar 19, 2008

Mad Townie said:
As soon as you said "repels everything" I KNEW what you were talking about. Ah, the scents of my youth!

Actually, the description describes it as being odorless. Clearly not the old traditional...

Doug

skiguy · Mar 19, 2008

DougPaul said:
Actually, the description describes it as being odorless. Clearly not the old traditional...

Doug

I wonder how it works then

Karst · Mar 19, 2008

http://www.woodsmansinternational.com/fly_&_squito_dope_2.htm

Is this the stuff that used to be sold as "Old Time Woodsman's Fly Dope" - what we always abbreviated to "ole woodsman"? - as in "whew, that guy sure stinks like ole woodsman".

Nessmuk · Mar 19, 2008

Karst said:
http://www.woodsmansinternational.com/fly_&_squito_dope_2.htm

Is this the stuff that used to be sold as "Old Time Woodsman's Fly Dope" - what we always abbreviated to "ole woodsman"? - as in "whew, that guy sure stinks like ole woodsman".

No, most likely this is what you are thinking of. I believe the original went out of business for a while and the trademark name expired and is now in the hands of a new company. Neither the old nor the new has DEET, but it is proven to work amazing well on Adirondack black flies. Here's the list of ingredients.

Karst · Mar 19, 2008

That's it! We used to smear that stuff all over ourselves at Paul Smith's. It would stain your skin for days. I was amazing how attracted to the color blue the blackflies were. And of course we all wore blue jeans.

Nessmuk · Mar 19, 2008

Karst said:
... I was amazing how attracted to the color blue the blackflies were. And of course we all wore blue jeans.

When I guide newbies during black fly season I'll do an experiment for them. I have a piece of navy blue cloth and another of most any color not blue. Instantly the blue is thickly covered by black flies while the other has few or none. It doesn't take much more convincing than that.

wyldeflower · Mar 19, 2008

So...spray DEET on the clothing, and then the clothing goes into the wash machine with the DEET...and then, into the waste water...which in turn goes back to our water source....and into the food chain...oh...what a world...what a world

I HATE DEET !!!

J.P. · Mar 20, 2008

wyldeflower said:
So...spray DEET on the clothing, and then the clothing goes into the wash machine with the DEET...and then, into the waste water...which in turn goes back to our water source....and into the food chain...oh...what a world...what a world

I HATE DEET !!!

Unless waste water treatment facilities remove DEET. I don't know if they do or not; but, it might not be as bad as you describe.

wyldeflower · Mar 20, 2008

I'm not positive, but I thought that one was not supposed to get DEET on their skin because it is toxic. I am not speaking scientifically, but I strongly feel that DEET is BAD stuff. I wish that we didn't need to use it, however, if one wants to protect oneself from West Nile or Lymes Disease, it seems to be a necessary evil.

I try to use alternative herbal solutions. I don't know what the answer is - maybe don't go in the woods. I don't care for that solution.

DougPaul · Mar 21, 2008

wyldeflower said:
I'm not positive, but I thought that one was not supposed to get DEET on their skin because it is toxic. I am not speaking scientifically, but I strongly feel that DEET is BAD stuff.

This is a persistent false rumor that refuses to die... It is actually quite safe if used properly.

Excerpt from an article in the New England Journal of Medicine:

Despite the substantial attention paid by the lay press every year to the safety of DEET, this repellent has been subjected to more scientific and toxicologic scrutiny than any other repellent substance. The extensive accumulated toxicologic data on DEET have been reviewed elsewhere. DEET has a remarkable safety profile after 40 years of use and nearly 8 billion human applications. Fewer than 50 cases of serious toxic effects have been documented in the medical literature since 1960, and three quarters of them resolved without sequelae. Many of these cases of toxic effects involved long-term, heavy, frequent, or whole-body application of DEET. No correlation has been found between the concentration of DEET used and the risk of toxic effects. As part of the Reregistration Eligibility Decision on DEET, released in 1998, the Environmental Protection Agency reviewed the accumulated data on the toxicity of DEET and concluded that "normal use of DEET does not present a health concern to the general U.S. population." When applied with common sense, DEET-based repellents can be expected to provide a safe as well as a long-lasting repellent effect. Until a better repellent becomes available, DEET-based repellents remain the gold standard of protection under circumstances in which it is crucial to be protected against arthropod bites that might transmit disease.

Ref: "Comparative Efficacy of Insect Repellents against Mosquito Bites" by Mark S. Fradin, M.D., and John F. Day, Ph.D.
Abstract:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content...4982956791_6411&FIRSTINDEX=0&journalcode=nejm

Full article:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content...IRSTINDEX=0&journalcode=nejm&journalcode=nejm
Note comments on safety near the end.

BTW, for maximum protection, apply permethrin based products to clothing (they don't work on skin) and DEET to exposed skin. DEET can also be applied to clothing.

Doug

adkleaddog · Mar 26, 2008

I've used permetherin products for some time now with excellent results....usually on a hat works great for the buzzing critters. As DougPaul mentioned use it only on clothing....(I think it only bonds to fibers)

DougPaul · Mar 26, 2008

adkleaddog said:
I've used permetherin products for some time now with excellent results....usually on a hat works great for the buzzing critters.

Yup.

As DougPaul mentioned use it only on clothing....(I think it only bonds to fibers)

Nope.

It is inactivated by chemicals in your skin, so it simply won't work on skin. (Actually, it does bond to fibers--but that is not why you shouldn't apply it to your skin. Applying it to clothing also reduces one's exposure--its a neurotoxin. I put it on my clothing before putting the clothing on.)

Unlike DEET (a smell-blinding agent), permethrin is a contact insecticide. (It is also very lethal for fish and other aquatic animals--don't use it or wash it off into anywhere that will drain into a lake or stream.)

Permethrin also works for several weeks per application so you don't need to apply it very often. It is the active ingredient in the anti-insect clothing (eg Buzz-Off).

Refs:
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin
Agricultural cautions: http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/pesticides/permethrin/cox-report/cox.htm
How to use on clothing: http://www.permethrin-repellent.com/
Toxicology: http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/permethr.htm
FAQ for human use: http://www.travmed.com/trip_prep/insect_permethrin.htm

Doug

How DEET works

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