VBL's (Vapor Barrier Liners) Questions

This one probably comes up every winter. However, this year I'm gonna pay attention! And the thread about spreading hot peppers/capacian sp? on my feet got me thinkin...

What is the group's advice on VBL's? I've never used anything more than a couple plastic baggies, and these usually only once my feet have become wet. This year I'm looking to improve the treatment of my feet by keeping them warmer and drier. I typically hike in a Sportiva Lhotse gore-tex winter boot and enjoy them. I may be going to a double boot this year (better for overnights) but before I do, I would like to know everyone's thoughts on VBL's.

Does anyone use off-the-shelf VBL's made specifically for hikers/climbers (can't say I've ever seen or looked for them)? Or do most people use that solution mom gave us years ago to just use plastic baggies?

My sock combo varies but in winter it's usually a pp liner and synthetic wicking sock. Sometimes I use a wool sock, depending on conditions and the trip.

My prior experience with baggies/vbl is that my feet sweat too much (always a problem in any season) and they get all clammy and nasty inside the baggies. Plus, I don't like the way my feet seem to slide around within the plastic of the vbl. Anyone have any thoughts on these problems?

Thanks everybody!

Hi Fred,

I use VBL’s in my shoes for multi day winter trips (I tend to have warm feet). I put them over liner socks and then my warm socks over the VBL’s. I find that real VBL’s do not make your foot slide as much as baggies.

I also use a VBL for my sleeping bag. Thin PolyPro underwear then slide into the VBL and sleeping bag. Never have had trouble with a wet or damp bag.

Mark

I use VBL's in the winter between my liner and wool socks and I think that they work fine - I honestly feel my fet stay warmer when standing around camp in the winter to (though I always try to keep my feet on an old piece of reflectix or foam pad when standing or sitting.

I have an old nylon VBL that my wife sewed from a piece of 1.9oz PU coated nylon that I got from campmor. Nothing fancy, mind you, but much cheaper than the VBLs that Stephenson sells and much more comfy than the large plastic recycle bags I swiped from work. I only use it if I am going out for more than 2 nights in the dead of winter - Otherwise I just sleep in my down bag and don't worry about loss of loft from respiration and perspiration.
(the theory being that by night 3 or night 4, my -25d bag might only be a -5 or a zero bag withouth using a VBL.
I cut my vbl roomy and then put flat piece of cord in the top to pull it 'round my chest under my arms.
Note from Experience: If making, do not try round cord or you will wake up at 2:37 AM with a sore spot across your back and under your arms from the round cord.

I use them in the winter. They don't blow out like plastic bags, they work. I tend to cover my feet with anti perspirant to prevent sweat build up from the inside.

I moved this to general backcountry because it is a gear question and not specific to the Northeast.

Anyway, I use VBL's between my polypro sock liners and an outer wool or synthetic sock. I got the VBLs after getting sick of always tearing plastic grocery bags after 1 day of hiking. The VBLs fit better and they dont bunch up or slide around like the bags. My feet stay a LOT warmer with VBLs. Your feet will get clammy but as long as you dry them at the end of the day you should be fine. As an added bonus, your outer sock will stay dry and you can reuse it on a backpack without trying to dry it out. Turn the VBLs inside out at night so they dry out.

The clammyness (is that a word) might be an issue to some people, but I have never had a problem with it. The benefit of warm feet far outweighs the 'clammyness' in my opinion. I actually never even notice that they are clammy until I take my boots off at the end of the day. Plus watching the steam cloud come out of the VBL is always entertaining.

- darren

Integral Designs

I have used vapor barrier socks with great success the past several winters, especially on overnights. I have tried most VB sock options through the years (bread baggies, Climb High VB socks, ...) with limited to no luck. The Integral Design VB sock is bomb proof and would highly recommend. Don't watste your money on any other product.

I second Hampshire's opinion about the Climb High VB Socks. Climb High is a good company, but they make crappy VB socks. I've had two pairs, and both pairs fell apart after 2-3 hikes each, no exaggeration. On another note, what about using a thin neoprene sock as a VB sock? I'm not too familiar with neoprene but I believe the air pockets in the neoprene "foam" are not interconnected, and hence may do the trick.

John

Do the Integral Designs ones have a flat seam? I'm wondering how comfortable these are going to be in Koflacch style boots compared to breadbags.

The ID VBLs have flat, taped seams. Much better than a bread bag.

I've also used the climb high ones, they're OK but require seam sealing and the seam while non bulky is not really "flat".

For those looking to find out if VBls work for them and find that bread bags hole too easily the handled deli bags work well. With a roughly foot sized bottom, you just fold over the excess on top and cary a pair for each day.

My thoughts on VBL in general and VB socks in particular are here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/vb.txt

Ignore teh table of contents as its wrong. The discussion on vb socks is item #9 (scroll down).

Hope this helps.

Thanks everyone, for all your replies. Anyone have any comments on how much space VBL's for feet take up in sizing space. IE: Does wearing a vbl affect feet volume inside boots? How much does a typical VBL take up: 1/4 size? 1/2? Does it depend on the make/model? Any other advice on brands? (Thanks to Hampshire and Johnnycakes for the rec on brands.) And thanks Dave M. for the link, it was EXTREMELY helpfull.

I've found the nylon (especially on the ID's) is slippery and thin enough that there's no real increase in size. Of course my winter boots tend to sized a bit larger than my 3 seasons for improved circulation and to accommodate mutant feet.

I love 'em...and won't venture out in the winter without them. Either a walk in the woods, a hike, or a ski....they work great (but the do wear out after a season)

VBL socks

A few years ago in the spring I was working on lake ice on Baffin Island (Canadian Arctic) and my feet were constantly colder than were apparently the feet of my Inuit companions. I was wearing plastic double boots; they were wearing mukluks. But, when they saw by VBLs when we took off our boots in the igloo, they laughed and laughed. So, they convinced me to carry out an experiment over the next two days (practical scientists that they are), whereby I wore on boot with VBL, one without, then switched feet with the VBL the second day. In both cases, my non-VBL foot remained considerably warmer than the VBL-foot. Perhaps this was a unique situation, as the Arctic is typically very dry, especially in winter. Has anyone carried out a similar test around the Northeast in winter?

textbook trolling

dave.m said:

My thoughts on VBL in general and VB socks in particular are here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/vb.txt

Ignore the table of contents as its wrong. The discussion on vb socks is item #9 (scroll down).

Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

"I have a plan for VBL in general and VB socks in particular -- to read it in detail, just visit my website."

Garsh, who does that remind me of???

Now, THAT'S trolling! (by me, I mean!)

"All posts are trolls"

--Eugene Miya

RBH Designs

I use vapor barrier socks from RBH Designs. http://www.rbhdesigns.com They are $26 but they custom sewed them to my feet. They have lasted through 2 years of intensive use. I used to go hiking every weekend for a few years. They are just as well constructed as the first day I bought them, but they sure stink a lot now.

VBs are great for overnight trips. I don't have to dry any socks out at night and I don't have to keep my boot liners in my bag.

Mongoose said:

They are $26 but they custom sewed them to my feet.

Click to expand...

Ouch, that must have really hurt.
Sorry, but I just had to say that.
Anywho, I'm glad many seem to like the ID VB socks, because I just received a pair, and I'm looking forward to trying them out.

Dave(.M),

To your credit, your website does have a lot of good information.

I've used a vapor barrier once in my sleeping bag when it was about -25F. It seemed to work, but I don't know if I'd ever want to be out in that kind of cold for a host of other reasons.

Since you turned me on to the insulated gaiters, I've never felt a need for vapor barrier socks.

But how 'bout them Red Sox?

Vbl

I guess IM in the minority at least so far, but I would rather put my foot in a bear trap then where VBL socks. In my opinion with the technology of todays boots and socks for that matter, there is no need for that clammy, wet feeling, they provide nothing in regards to keeping warm imo.