‘List’less hiking

[Zimmer]

You don't have to take someone else's word for it - the summit is maybe 5 minutes from the main path. It's not a large investment in effort.

Yes, I know it's only a couple hundred yards, but I guess that's my point: I've simply never been curious enough about it to bother with even that little effort. I'm not boycotting it, if I'm taking detours, it's just not high on my list. Ahem. Bad choice of words. I mean I'm just not particularly interested. I could just as well wander into the woods 200 yards below the summit, but I also don't choose to do that either, unless I see something that interests me.

And sure, it's a spot in the woods, but whereas I actually see Waumbek as a worthy destination in and of itself -- I absolutely LOVE the forest between Starr King and Waumbek -- when I wander by Zealand, I'm always in the midst of some other hike (typically a fairly long one) with lots of points of interest along the way. Bopping up to Zealand just isn't of interest.

I'm much more likely to wander off the trail to explore a swimming hole, or an old logging camp, or a campsite, or an abandoned trail, or a stone wall (found a porcupine skeleton off the trail by a stone wall I was exploring on Saturday -- very cool) than I am to wander to a summit, just because I haven't been there before and think I should.

Not to me, particularly - usually see something that I wouldn't have seen otherwise, like a boreal chickadee or maybe a snowshoe hare.

I'm not sure what you're saying here: boreal chickadees and snowshoe hares only hang out on official summits? I see lots of interesting things on the trail and off; I just don't need to go to a particular set of coordinates merely BECAUSE it's on a list. I'd rather choose my own points of interest.

I'm hoping that doesn't come off as argumentative or defensive; I'm just trying to express why lists and high points really don't have any bearing on my hiking plans.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

jjhikes -

I should have been more explict in my reference to chickadees and hares.

What I often find is that when I arrive near a summit, like a Zealand or a Passaconaway, it's a welcome rest stop, and off comes the pack and I often have a snack and a drink before going over to the 'real' summit. But, now the trip is relaxed, less purposeful, and in that frame of mind it's easier to see wildlife. Wildlife, I might add, which have probably been there all the time, but now I'm in a different frame of mind.

Not to be argumentative either, but ... I can't recall ever finding a hike boring. Tedious, yes - if I've underestimated my stamina, but never boring.

 

[SteveHiker]

I'm not sure what you're saying here: boreal chickadees and snowshoe hares only hang out on official summits?

not sure about those two species, but gray jays certainly seem to. Probably they've learned that people will tend to linger there for a bit, and it's easiest to get a quick meal there as opposed to somewhere else where the people are usually moving.

They must not be working on the list though, as I've only seen them on at most 6 or 7 different summits.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

They must not be working on the list though, as I've only seen them on at most 6 or 7 different summits.

There's an idea for a new list!! "Summits with Gray Jays".

http://www.summitswithgrayjays.com/ is available too!

Tim

 

[Zimmer]

What I often find is that when I arrive near a summit, like a Zealand or a Passaconaway, it's a welcome rest stop, and off comes the pack and I often have a snack and a drink before going over to the 'real' summit. But, now the trip is relaxed, less purposeful, and in that frame of mind it's easier to see wildlife.

That's probably where my solo-hiking mindset is a bit different from most. On my solo hike days, I drop the kids off at school in the AM and have to be back to pick them up in the mid-afternoon. I actually do precious little relaxing; I'm usually trying to squeeze the miles in, as it's the best opportunity I get for any intense exercise all week long. As the kids get older and more capable of accompanying me on weekend hikes, that situation is getting better, though my DH isn't as avid a hiker as I am, so we don't do weekend family hikes that often. Sometimes another mom will come along with me on a Friday and then I slow down a bit, but when it's just me (and the dog), we tend to keep moving pretty consistently.

And my kids would LOVE a "summits with gray jays" list. They really love the gray jays. Jackson and Tom for sure (and I think the Mt. Tom ones do the Field/Tom/Willey circuit looking for pushovers).

 

[marty]

I was running tonight and got thinking about this thread. Although I no longer pursue lists, my passion for hiking is as strong as ever. I work out just as hard and I still eagerly count down the days until my next hike. The "hiker's high" I experience after a hike hasn't diminished either.

I also no longer feel a need to go to a true summit. Two of my most enjoyable hikes this year were doing Glen Boulder/Boott Spur/Lions Head with Ray and a meandering Northern Presi loop with Sapblatt. Neither hike took us to an official 4k summit and I don't think anyone felt deprived

Regards,
Marty

 

[Roxi]

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I work on lists but don't feel tied to them or bound by them. If I do a hike that is on a list great and if I feel like hiking something (or with someone) not on a list then that is what I do......I just feel like eventually the lists will be completed because I like to go to new places and see places at different times of the year.

Ditto. I hiked before I knew about the NH48 list. That list opened up possibilities for me that I hadn't previously known about. I like the metaphor someone else used about viewing the lists as "menus." I like picking and choosing which peak(s) I want to explore, or just hike a trail if that's what I'm in the mood for. I'm equally content hiking sub 4Ks. I like exploring new places. The lists provide a sort of road map to new places. I completed the NH48 because I could do them all as day hikes. I'm now having fun exploring places on the NE67 and NEHH lists, but may not complete them as some of the peaks in Maine look like they may require overnight camping. I hate camping! So I may not complete these lists, and I'm very ok with that. I'll still be exploring, and it's not like I'm going to run out of places to explore any time soon. I adhere to Ben & Jerry's motto, "If it's not fun, why do it?" Day hiking for me is a lot of fun; camping is not. Lists are simply suggestions...the choice is always the hiker's - you can order off the menu, or make your own meal. Either one is fun!

 

[cushetunk]

Actually, it baffles me when people say they have been hiking for so many years and will probably never finish a list and have no desire to. Does that mean you are intentionally *not* hking a peak so you don't finish the list? (In that case, you are still putting a constraint on your hiking.)

One way you could achieve this is to live an inconvenient distance from half of the peaks. Say by living in Maine and not easily getting over to Franconia. Perhaps over the course of my whole life, I'd hike the rest, but I can't see myself making a giant trip for the sake of hiking Tecumseh.

Don't you have to admit there is some modicum of curiosity to see what that hike would be like? Don't you feel that doing the same peaks year after year gets old and you would like to see something different? If someone professes to love nature and being in the mountains so much, why would you avoid certain peaks? Why would that exercise and experience be any less worthy of a destination?

Yes; no; because one is not yet inclined to go there; yes, it could be less worthy of a destination given the vehicle travel needed to get there and the other possibilities closer to home.

(...) I feel the only way to figure out what peaks are your favorites is to hike them all so you have something to compare it to. For example, I feel that Shelburne Moriah has a far better view than regular Moriah, but I never would have known that if not for the 52 WAV list. (How many of you non-listers have been there, and don't you think there are other similarly rewarding places that you are missing out on?)

I have been to Shelburne Moriah. It's awesome. I discovered it in the White Mountain Guide, which described at length the great views. It wasn't exactly a big secret, if you were on the lookout for a good hike.

Speaking of that area: The Baldfaces are an awesome hike, especially in winter. Speckled Mountain is a great hike. Caribou Mountain is a great hike. Mount Success is a great hike. Old Blue is a great hike. Butters Mountain and Red Rock Mountains are awesome. A good bit north and west from there, The Owl is a spectacular hike. All off most major lists. And that's just what I can think of from the top of my head (and what I am willing to share).

As a non-lister, I would say I've been to many similarly rewarding places -- of all heights and topographies -- and I don't feel as though I am missing out.

 

[sapblatt]

I also no longer feel a need to go to a true summit. Two of my most enjoyable hikes this year were doing Glen Boulder/Boott Spur/Lions Head with Ray and a meandering Northern Presi loop with Sapblatt. Neither hike took us to an official 4k summit and I don't think anyone felt deprived

Regards,
Marty

The only time I felt deprived on that hike was when it ended!

 

[forestgnome]

If I went grocery shopping the way forestgnome goes hiking, who knows what I'd end up buying, or even what store I went to!

So true! I'm famous for coming home without someting I was sent for, but having something that caught my eye

 

[forestgnome]

For some, it's enjoying the woods. For others, it's the solitude, or the company of friends, for working on a peakbagging list - the reasons are many. What does strike me is the disdain that some have for other's goals. I wonder why it seems to be OK to hike peak X for the view, but not OK to hike peak X because it's on a list?

Kevin, I don't read any disdain here for other's goals, just people expressing that they don't hike that way, don't get it, don't do it anymore, etc. The OP asked non-listers why they don't do lists, and they all seem to be of the "hike your own hike" attitude. I sure am. My disdain is for litterbugs, speeders and poachers.

I found the beautiful summit of Shelbourne-Moriah from my trail map. I've never seen a list, except I once saw the 4k list on a t-shirt. I have maps, which I suppose are all-encompassing, comprehensive list of all peaks.

It seems that the are no mountains that are not on some list

Happy Trails

 

[Steve-o]

the best thing about 4ker's, is you get to see all those gem's you're missing out on.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

I'd say now I just want to do some of the more remote peaks and stuff with views. I don't think I would hike 1 way anymore for a hike with no views at the top. I'm sure I will, but hitting something like Zealand or the Hancocks is not a "must" in my life. I'd rather hit something with a "reward" at the end (i.e. a view).

I think that Mount Zealand as perhaps the neatest summit sign in the Whites; I return there again and again just to admire the sign.

 

[Grayjay]

People need a hook. I know a guy who finished the 48 and 100. I remember doing Scaur Ridge and Nubble with him (I might not have done either without his need; I might have been satisfied with Haystack). Later he took up golf, and now he is back doing what he did before he retired.
He needs a hook.
What is my hook? The incredible aliveness of travelling in the mountains. I've done the Tuck Trail probably 100 times, heading for varied summer or winter adventures. I havn't done Tecumsah yet.

 

[Artex]

When I was working on my 48 a few years ago, I had a hard time comprehending how some adamant hikers chose not to follow lists. After completing my list, I wasn't interested much in doing another, but still had other goals that were in other forms. I began to realize my own ignorance with my previous thinking and mused that we all have goals when hiking, they just manifest themselves in different forms. It's all about getting out there for some fun, exercise and appreciation of the many beautiful areas we can visit, no? I would think that's common ground we all share, and at least to me, that's enough.

 

[Oldsmores]

...Actually, it baffles me when people say they have been hiking for so many years and will probably never finish a list and have no desire to. Does that mean you are intentionally *not* hking a peak so you don't finish the list? (In that case, you are still putting a constraint on your hiking.)

Don't you have to admit there is some modicum of curiosity to see what that hike would be like? Don't you feel that doing the same peaks year after year gets old and you would like to see something different? If someone professes to love nature and being in the mountains so much, why would you avoid certain peaks? Why would that exercise and experience be any less worthy of a destination?...

Since I said earlier that I "have been hiking for so many years and will probably never finish a list and have no desire to", I feel obligated to respond.
No, I don't intentionally *not* hike a peak so I don't finish a list. I hike different peaks for a variety of reasons - whether or not they're on a list simply isn't one of my criteria.
Curiosity? Also not a real consideration, any more than I drive down every possible road just to see what it's like.
As for the "same peaks" year after year: Hasn't been a real problem for me. Not only is each hike different, depending on the season, weather, etc., but I've managed to hike throughout New England, the Shenandoahs, the Smokies, the Rockies, the Sierras, and the Andes. Haven't gotten bored yet, not even a little.
And finally, once again, I don't "avoid certain peaks". I choose to hike what I hike, but have never, ever not climbed a certain peak for fear of inadvertantly finishing a list.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Who's avoiding finishing the list for fear of a let down? Or a lack of motivation to keep hiking? Anyone? Anyone brave enough to admit it?

Tim
23/48

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I think that Mount Zealand as perhaps the neatest summit sign in the Whites; I return there again and again just to admire the sign.

Yup, good point, Thom. And now that it's brushed out you can actually step back a couple of paces for a better look.

And Tim - you raise a good point about finishing lists. Like any goal, there is exhileration in finishing a list, but there's also the letdown that follows. I think in pyschobabble terms we go thru the process of grieving the loss of that goal. Some people don't have a plan/haven't created a vision of what they'll be doing, hiking-wise, after achieving the goal of completing a list. Maybe that's what happened to Grayjay's hiking bud. I remember the summer I got really hooked on hiking, and my wife and I were day-hiking sections of the Long Trail. We encountered this fellow from Syracuse several times, and on the last occasion he had completed the LT by section hiking a stretch near Brandon Gap, and was waiting for his wife to pick him up. He was quite despondent, and said he had hiked all the ADK's and the now the LT, and was done. I suggested he might consider doing them again, but no, he said, he didn't see the point, and NH was too far away. I realize that occurs with some people. Others channel that drive and make contributions in trail work, leading hikes, or simply working on other hiking goals.

 

[sapblatt]

Who's avoiding finishing the list for fear of a let down? Or a lack of motivation to keep hiking? Anyone? Anyone brave enough to admit it?

Tim
23/48

As I approached the the finish of my 48 I was keenly aware of that - I enjoy and need hiking so much (as I often say, some go to therapists - I hike) that I wanted to be sure to keep this out of the obsessive realm and keep enjoying it. That is why I still hike a lot, but I am not very goal focused - just get out. Hike how you want to hike - this is what works for me...

The letdown happens a lot in life...it happened to me with running...I ran a bit, raced a bit, did a marathon - after the first marathon my interest slowly waned and I lost interest...I rarely ever run anymore - I have trouble staying focused when running, which is strange because I find it easy to walk or hike for hours.

 

[albee]

One thing I find very interesting about this thread is the level of defensiveness from both sides. (Not everyone, mind you, but quite a few for both pro- and con-.) If the thread is about hiking without a list, why do people that like lists feel the need to post and defend themselves? That wasn't the question! Personally, I find this very interesting. Is there pride involved with following or not following a list? Is there some form of elitism or denial going on?

I agree with Kevin Rooney that there are some that appear to show disdain for others' goals. I have learned a bit from reading this thead - I hope others approach the subject with an open mind as well.

I also agree with Cushetunk that driving distance is a great reason not to bother with a list. I will never hike the 770 list because I don't feel like driving 5 hours to NY each time I want to knock off a few of the 200 bushwhack peaks that I haven't done out there. I identify with this sentiment.

What I don't understand is that if the 48 or 46 or whatever is such a celebrated goal in this community (and even, dare I say it, understood by non-hikers), and you are at, say, 40... what is the point of not doing the others? Sorry to paraphrase, but the responses I have seen here are: because the other peaks aren't interesting or don't have views, because some don't know and don't care about which peaks are on the list, because there are bigger and better things to climb, and because it is a matter of distance and convenience... All of these are valid personal opinions and I certainly understand and respect them.

But if you were so close and never finished... wow. I'll give you credit because I personally can't stand getting so close and not putting the finishing touches on something. I need more closure than that, and I'm also curious to see all the places that so many of my peers have been to. You might say this makes me a follower, but I see it as paying homage to those that have come before me.