0 degree or -20 degree?

[miehoff]

Ok, this is a simple question...

I enjoy camping in the winter (and not freezing my ass off like usual), and I am also interested in taking advantage of the deals that EMS is offering with their down bags...

If I am am going to camp in the Northeast, in tents and also in shelters like Grey Knob, what should I get, a 0 degree or a -20 degree? It is a $40+ difference and a small bit of weight to compare.

I am going to buy one, but I just can't decide.

 

[David Metsky]

-20, no question. 0 is not a winter bag.

-dave-

 

[Rick]

$40 will feel like nothing if you are lying out in your tent with everything on, shivering endlessly at 2:30 AM while listening to the trees explode, wishing you would have bought the dang -20 bag.

I have never regretted the additional protection. you can always use the -20 on a zero night and be very comfortable. The inverse is not so.

 

[stu]

-40

I agree with dave and Rik, or you could go with a -40 bag. I did, and I've never been cold. Of course that does'nt mean I would want to camp @ -40°.

 

[DougPaul]

I've spent a (comfortable) -30F night out in a -40F bag in the Whites. I agree with Dave--get at least the -20F bag and consider the -40F if you want to be able to go out on the colder nights.

Doug

 

[SAR-EMT40]

You'll never regret having a bag so warm that you may have to unzip it a little bit to cool off.

Get the -40 bag, you won't regret it. You might regret getting the cheaper bags. If you can afford it, its a no brainer.

Keith

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

Zero degree bags are for the backpacker who has everything, and wants an additional bag for when -20 is too much and +20 not enough. As everyone else has said, a zero bag is definitely not a substitute for a -20 one.

 

[Chip]

I'll just add this; -20 rated is rarely -20 comfort. I've a Valandre bag that is rated -40. It's fill 2 1/2 lbs of 850+ down. It looks like the bag is filled with helium when open. I would rate this bag to -20 comfort.

I'd spend as much as you can on the best bag you can find, they last forever.

Edit: I don't mean you should intentionally pay too much, just as much as you need to for the best bag you can find. I got my Valandre new on ebay for about 1/3 list price.

 

[hikerfast]

get as good a bag as you can, I got the -40 bag, and I have used it partly unzipped it on warmer nights. the extra price is probably 40 cents a day for a year. think about what people spend on coffee on a whim. Imagine you were that guy on Lafayette who was just lost and got some frostbite. When you are thawing out your toes in a hospital I bet you would be glad you spent another 100 bucks. What I see happening ALL the time is, someone buys an expensive bag, then ends up having to by ANOTHER expensive bag that is better, and they end up spending way more that if they had bought the best one in the first place.
PLUS!!
think about how cool it will be to have a shiny new -40 bag, and bragging about it to your visitors and friends. Showing off new hiking equipment is a very important part of hiking, always remember that.
grins

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Get the -40 bag. That way you can sleep naked.



Tim

 

[BorealChickadee]

Get the -40

I have a -35 and it's the only bag I would consider for the winter. Weighs a ton but it's warm. It's also over 25 years old, a high quality bag, so invest your money now because a good down bag will last a long time.

Heck, I've got a 0 degree bag for the other seasons: spring, pseudo summer and fall. It only weighs a pound and a half so at least I know I'll be comfortable.

 

[Jkrew81]

I guess I sleep warm

I guess I will go against the grain and say I do use a 0 deg on some pretty cold nights. Three weeks ago I did a climb up King Ravine and spent the night out near the Subway in my 0 deg, DAS parka and Wild Things EP pants with a Gossamer Gear 3/8 foam pad and Bozeman Mtn Works Torsolte inflatable. Not exactly sure what the temp outside was, but it was 3 degrees at my car when I left Lowes store and I slept comfortably all night. I like the versatility of carrying insulation I can wear in bad situations. I am a warm sleeper, but I also enjoy the weight it saves me plus the added advantage of being able to carry the warmth with me when I get up in the AM . I will admit though that it took me many uncomfortable nights to figure this system out.

On the other hand if you are a comfort camper and do not care about weight I would def recommend a warmer bag.

 

[Mad Townie]

I've slept comfortably at Grey Knob in a -40 TNF sythetic bag, though I had to unzip it a ways. I have my doubts about whether I'd be comfortable in it at -40, but I'm confident it could handle -20 zipped up.

So I'm with the folks who say go -40.

 

[cbcbd]

I guess I'll have to go with Jkrew on this one.

I'm guessing that I'm also a warm sleeper and my 15 degree bag has been good to me for 0 degree nights with moderate clothing (one base layer and one insulation layer for top).
If on a 0 degree night I was in my bag and didn't need to take out my down jacket to help out then I am pretty sure I could probably go to some gnarly negatives and just throw on all my clothes.

But, if you don't mind the extra bulk and weight of a warmer bag and don't want to worry about wearing your clothes to sleep then go as warm as you can.

 

[miehoff]

Thanks!

Great answers, since they all say about the same thing: -20 it is...
Funny how someone mentioned -40 and all of a sudden it became one of my options. Hehe...I guess that is how rumours get started.

I would love a -40, but I don't see it as an option money-wise.

Thanks again. You guys are, once again, there when I need you.

 

[DougPaul]

I would love a -40, but I don't see it as an option money-wise.

Take a look at the EMS Mountain Light -40. On sale right now. Decent bag at a killer price. (I have one.)

Doug

 

[Lawn Sale]

I will also go against the grain here and say a -40° bag is overkill most of the time. The last thing you want it to wake up in the middle of the night sweating, and let's face it, they're just not designed to 'vent' to warmer temps. Besides, how many people actually go out in temps that cold. Most of the time it's as low as 0°, but not a lot lower. I own a 0°, and if it's going to be a lot colder, I just nest another bag with it (15°), and I've been fine to -40° with that setup over multiple days. I have a few bags, and use them for different temps, but really haven't had much need for something with a -40° rating yet, and I'm out in some pretty cold temps.

 

[Warren]

Note, a bivy, VBL, bagliner and/or use of your outer layers can boost a bag 10-15° (YMMV). Not the most weight efficient way (aside from outer layers) weight wise but it can lessen the initial hit on the wallet.

I've been cozy solo in a tent in below -20 temps in a -10 bag, but the manufacturer was very conservative in it's rating. That's a huge part of the bag equation.

It's worth noting that use of outer layers while really effective requires a bag that fits you in your outer layers and if those layers are damp, your bag will gain that moisture. Something to consider on longer trips.

 

[DougPaul]

I will also go against the grain here and say a -40° bag is overkill most of the time. The last thing you want it to wake up in the middle of the night sweating, and let's face it, they're just not designed to 'vent' to warmer temps. Besides, how many people actually go out in temps that cold. Most of the time it's as low as 0°, but not a lot lower. I own a 0°, and if it's going to be a lot colder, I just nest another bag with it (15°), and I've been fine to -40° with that setup over multiple days. I have a few bags, and use them for different temps, but really haven't had much need for something with a -40° rating yet, and I'm out in some pretty cold temps.

I have used a double bag system at times. (Both polyester outer/down inner and down/down.) It can work very well and makes easy to cover a wide range of temps. However it is heavy and takes up a lot of space in your pack. Thus I switched to a single bag system,

Even with one of the (much of the time) overkill -20F or -40F bags, it is easy to open them up a bit and ventilate the excess heat.

Doug

 

[sierra]

20+ yrs in the Whites, I consider -30 my standard for a winter bag. As far as the 'double bag' system, I do not care for it myself. I agree as well that money can be an issue in the temp range we are talking about here and for that reason I have always been in a big ole fat synthetic bag, BUT this is one of those crucial items, that wether your in a down or synthetic, you MUST get the right temp rating.
When disscussing winter camping and its gear to people over the years, i have reffered to the sleeping bag as the "last refuge" that you have when out overnight, everything you have can be wet and useless but crawling into a adequete bag at the end of the day can save or at least cover you butt out there.