Interesting discussion.
A) Do we live in communist China or something? My understanding is that Trailbandit created the map using publicly available resources and that he's removed some trails at the request of some landowners. Is that incorrect? The property owner own the property and that's it. They're acting like bullies trying to censor public information.
There's nothing wrong with publishing publicly available information. Things like terrain, topography, and feature names (e.g. "Mt Shaw") are public information. Even property boundaries are public information.
The problem is that publishing trail locations unfortunately carries an unwritten, implicit suggestion that the trails in question are in fact usable by the general public, especially when the trails have names and mileage information. IMHO, to publish a trail map without including property boundaries showing areas open to public access (e.g. LRCT, SPNHF, WMNF), and verifying that the trails in question are open to public access, is irresponsible. It's less irresponsible than clearing & marking trails on someone else's private property, but it's still irresponsible. Writing things on the map like
To my knowledge, there is no part of the area where camping is specifically allowed. It might be a good idea to get landowner permission before camping and certainly, before kindling a fire.
are just lame. With the exception of public property where camping and/or fires are specifically permitted, you should
NEVER camp or set fires anywhere, whether on public or private lands, without getting permission to do so.
I have the LRCT's "Hiking Trails of the Castle in the Clouds Conservation Area" (looking at it right now). With two exceptions (lower portions of the Bald Knob Trail and Shaw Trail), all trails are on LRCT property and there are several other trails not included. the property boundary is clearly shown. I like the cartography better on the Trail Bandit Map, but it's wrong to post unauthorized trails.
We have a snowmobile club in our town, from what I understand they have some kind of trail map for their membership, but they also work very hard to keep open discussions with all private landowners to get permission to ride snowmobiles on the trails in question. One of these trails goes across a property owned by SPNHF that I monitor occasionally; there was unfortunately some miscommunication recently and someone in the club had put up a whole bunch of signs for the snowmobile trails w/o asking permission of the landowner. This is hopefully a situation that will be resolved soon, but it's another example of irresponsible behavior.
All of us, whether we are mapmakers, newspaper reporters, snowmobilers, and hikers, have both a privilege and a responsibility when it comes to unposted private land. The privilege is that we are allowed to use it. The responsibility is that we need to treat it as a privilege, and not a right, that we are on someone else's property by virtue of their permission, and need to treat that property with respect.
rocket21: my 2c on your website is that
this page is a responsible compilation of information. However if you are going to keep up the information on the
trail bandit map page, unless you do a bit more to point out that this area is private land, that the map doesn't show private land boundaries, that the trails are not all authorized for public access by the landowner, and that because of recent misuse this is a real problem in the area, I think you are helping contribute to the mapmaker's irresponsible behavior. The "Important Notice" at the top isn't enough. Just my 2c.
On another note, does anyone know who maintains
this web page on a trail crossing the Tates peaks? There's no mention of where the property boundaries or the fact that this trail is on private land and is not an authorized trail.
